Nolva while on GH or IGF = bad idea

[ROCKETW19]

The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 95, No. 12 5443-5448
Copyright © 2010 by The Endocrine Society

Neuroendocrine Regulation of Growth Hormone and Androgen Axes by Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators in Healthy Men

Vita Birzniece, Akira Sata, Surya Sutanto and Ken K. Y. Ho
Garvan Institute of Medical Research and Department of Endocrinology (V.B., A.S., S.S., K.K.Y.H.), St. Vincent’s Hospital, Sydney, New South Wales 2010, Australia; and The University of New South Wales (V.B., K.K.Y.H.), Sydney, New South Wales 2052, Australia

Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Prof. Ken K. Y. Ho, Pituitary Research Unit, Garvan Institute of Medical Research, Darlinghurst, New South Wales 2010, Australia.

Context: In men, the stimulation of GH and inhibition of LH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization to estradiol. Tamoxifen, a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM), possesses central estrogen antagonistic effect but peripheral hepatic agonist effect, lowering IGF-I. Thus, tamoxifen is likely to perturb the neuroendocrine regulation of GH and gonadal axes. Raloxifene, a SERM, is used for therapy of osteoporosis in both sexes. Its neuroendocrine effects in men are poorly understood.

Objective: The aim was to compare the impact of raloxifene and tamoxifen on GH-IGF-I and gonadal axes in healthy men.

Design: We conducted a randomized, open-label crossover study.

Patients and Intervention: Ten healthy men were randomized to 2-wk sequential treatment with tamoxifen (10 and 20 mg/d) and raloxifene (60 and 120 mg/d), with a 2-wk intervening washout period.

Main Outcome Measures: We measured the GH response to arginine and circulating levels of IGF-I, LH, FSH, testosterone, and SHBG.

Results: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, significantly reduced IGF-I levels by 25 ± 6% (P < 0.01) and increased SHBG levels by 20 ± 7% (P < 0.05) at the higher therapeutic dose. There was a nonstatistically significant trend toward a reduction in the GH response to arginine with both SERMs. Both drugs significantly increased LH, FSH, and testosterone concentrations. The mean increase in testosterone (40 vs. 25%; P < 0.05) and LH (70 vs. 30%; P < 0.01) was significantly greater with tamoxifen than with raloxifene treatment.

Conclusions: Tamoxifen, but not raloxifene, reduces IGF-I levels. Both SERMs stimulate the gonadal axis, with tamoxifen imparting a greater effect. We conclude that in therapeutic doses, raloxifene perturbs the GH and gonadal axes to a lesser degree than tamoxifen.

[ROCKETW19]

I only posted this cuz i remember a few years back i was arguing with someone about this and when they ask for me to post a study i didnt have one as I had read it in 2004 or something like that.
well now here is a study in case you were the guy I was arguing with,lol.

[Ashop]

I had always heard and even read myself that NOLVA will lower IGF1 levels.

[Mr I]

First off I always read that Nolva could hinder IGF but I winder by how much, if you were slamming GH I wonder if the effects of nolva would really effect the IGF release.

Second the study is a little loose for example it says;

"the stimulation of GH and inhibition of LH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization to estradiol"

Thats bullshit.

If it required aromatization to inhibit LH secretion we would just take Letro all through cycle and we would never be shut down.

I'd like to know just how much SERMs effect IGF when on GH? also if your taking IGF direct then it matters not that a serm is inhibiting your natural IGF because your taking it exogeneous anyway.

Last point, the study seem to be saying that where the administration of Test would normally increase your GH levels of itself, if you take a serm with it it won't do it as well if at all. Its not saying that your GH or IGF won't work if you take nolva with it.

[Ashop]

First off I always read that Nolva could hinder IGF but I winder by how much, if you were slamming GH I wonder if the effects of nolva would really effect the IGF release.

Second the study is a little loose for example it says;

"the stimulation of GH and inhibition of LH secretion by testosterone requires aromatization to estradiol"

Thats bullshit.

If it required aromatization to inhibit LH secretion we would just take Letro all through cycle and we would never be shut down.

I'd like to know just how much SERMs effect IGF when on GH? also if your taking IGF direct then it matters not that a serm is inhibiting your natural IGF because your taking it exogeneous anyway.

Last point, the study seem to be saying that where the administration of Test would normally increase your GH levels of itself, if you take a serm with it it won't do it as well if at all. Its not saying that your GH or IGF won't work if you take nolva with it.

I too would like to know just how much NOLVA could lower IGF1 levels. Perhaps I can get a study in order with a couple guys I know. A little experiment should I say?

[Mr I]

I too would like to know just how much NOLVA could lower IGF1 levels. Perhaps I can get a study in order with a couple guys I know. A little experiment should I say?

I would respect that

[ROCKETW19]

I too would like to know just how much NOLVA could lower IGF1 levels. Perhaps I can get a study in order with a couple guys I know. A little experiment should I say?

Ya that would be cool.:thumup:

[jack tors]

The study says the dosage of tamoxifen was 10 and 20 mg/d.