a-dex or aromasin with deca/test

[BowHunter]

Deca scares me a little because it binds to estrogen receptors itself. That means it exerts estrogenic effects independent of aromatase.

What do you guys run with deca to avoid gyno and why? Maybe a high dose serm would be the way to go...

[Bouncer]

test to deca ratio is important also. if my deca is high and test is low i get progesterone sides. i keep my test twice the dose of deca.

ive only ever used adex so i cant speak on the other.

[BowHunter]

Yeah, I don't want to run test over replacement levels because I am going for tendon healing over anything else and high exogenous test levels have the opposite effect on tendons. I am only going to run test at 100 mg ew or maybe even 100mg e5d. That should jack my test levels up to that of a much younger man.

I will be running both deca and Eq at higher levels, probably 300 mg ew each. Also running GH at 2 ius ed for 100 days and tb-500 for at least 25 days (2 mg e5d). Gonna run just GH and tb-500 for the first month and then add the AAS. Also running var and proviron so that should raise my androgen level and should help some.

[boricuarage79]

I used both.. aromasin makes me sick I do not know why... Dude test aromatize too. Dont over think the damn thing... take some damn caber and you be fine.. ehhhh u should run your test a lil higher you are only getting about 70mgs of the actual Esther

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[BowHunter]

I know test aromatizes but that is all due to aromatase so inhibit aromatase with a-dex and no problem. I am concerned with deca because its estrogenic effects are not related to aromatase. It binds to estrogen receptors itself and exerts an estrogenic effect.

I am not convinced that gyno can really be caused by progesterone. I can find no medical literature that bears that out. If that is really the case, then caber is not going to prevent anything. Better safe than sorry so I will definitely have some on hand and will definitely start taking it at the first sign of gyno but its the estrogenic effects of deca I am worried about. If those effects are not caused by aromatase then an AR inhibitor is unlikely to help. That's why I said that maybe a high dose serm like nolvadex might be better. If the estrogen can't bind to the receptors then it can't exert its effect.

I can't help overthinking, LOL. I analyze everything out the wazu. It's my nature to want all the answers and try to learn everything I can about absolutely everything.

Anyway, I was just looking for someone who has run deca at higher doses than test and what they used. If they are prone to gyno, even better.

[BowHunter]

Also, having my test levels measured before and again after being on for 4 to 6 weeks. I can make a decision at that point about upping the test dose if it isn't high enough.

[Bouncer]

Yeah, I don't want to run test over replacement levels because I am going for tendon healing over anything else and high exogenous test levels have the opposite effect on tendons. I am only going to run test at 100 mg ew or maybe even 100mg e5d. That should jack my test levels up to that of a much younger man.

I will be running both deca and Eq at higher levels, probably 300 mg ew each. Also running GH at 2 ius ed for 100 days and tb-500 for at least 25 days (2 mg e5d). Gonna run just GH and tb-500 for the first month and then add the AAS. Also running var and proviron so that should raise my androgen level and should help some.

thats pretty low for test. i think trt is 200mgs once a week no?

[Bouncer]

I know test aromatizes but that is all due to aromatase so inhibit aromatase with a-dex and no problem. I am concerned with deca because its estrogenic effects are not related to aromatase. It binds to estrogen receptors itself and exerts an estrogenic effect.

I am not convinced that gyno can really be caused by progesterone. I can find no medical literature that bears that out. If that is really the case, then caber is not going to prevent anything. Better safe than sorry so I will definitely have some on hand and will definitely start taking it at the first sign of gyno but its the estrogenic effects of deca I am worried about. If those effects are not caused by aromatase then an AR inhibitor is unlikely to help. That's why I said that maybe a high dose serm like nolvadex might be better. If the estrogen can't bind to the receptors then it can't exert its effect.

I can't help overthinking, LOL. I analyze everything out the wazu. It's my nature to want all the answers and try to learn everything I can about absolutely everything.

Anyway, I was just looking for someone who has run deca at higher doses than test and what they used. If they are prone to gyno, even better.

absolutely false. i ran a test and tren cycle years ago. tren was low dose 200mgs per week. test was 400-500mgs. got gyno symptoms while on adex and gyno kept getting worse. jumped on letro which as you know straight up kills estrogen levels. the gyno kept getting worse even on letro. finally dropped the tren and within 2 weeks gyno was gone, nips were tight and everytging back to normal.

in other words i got gyno while my estro levels were at basically zero. the only possible explination for this is progesterone. soon as i stopped tren gyno went away.

the reason you dont see studies is because nobody is studying bodybuilders using the doses we are using and factoring in anti estros etc..

its is the progesterone from the deca you should be worried about. deca converts to estrogen at a much much lower rate compared to test.

[BowHunter]

thats pretty low for test. i think trt is 200mgs once a week no?

I actually don't know. That's part of why I am getting more blood work done after 4 to 6 weeks. My goal is somewhere between 400 and 1000 ng/dL; hopefully in the upper part of that range. If 100 mg ew doesn't raise it enough, I can adjust at that time. I just want to be careful not to have supraphysiological test levels since that is where bad things start happening to tendons.

As for your tren story, if tren binds estrogen receptors like deca, taking a-dex or even letro would not be expected to have the desired effect. Basically, if the steroid is itself acting like an estrogen, your body sees high levels of estrogen even if aromatase is shut down completely with letrozole. I wonder if 40 or 50 mg nolva a day would have worked better since that blocks the receptors so even if estrogen levels are high, it can't exert its influence and cause gyno. Also, did you try caber? If you did and it cleared up the gyno symptoms, that would be evidence of the gyno being caused by progestin since caber is not a serm.

[Bouncer]

I actually don't know. That's part of why I am getting more blood work done after 4 to 6 weeks. My goal is somewhere between 400 and 1000 ng/dL; hopefully in the upper part of that range. If 100 mg ew doesn't raise it enough, I can adjust at that time. I just want to be careful not to have supraphysiological test levels since that is where bad things start happening to tendons.

As for your tren story, if tren binds estrogen receptors like deca, taking a-dex or even letro would not be expected to have the desired effect. Basically, if the steroid is itself acting like an estrogen, your body sees high levels of estrogen even if aromatase is shut down completely with letrozole. I wonder if 40 or 50 mg nolva a day would have worked better since that blocks the receptors so even if estrogen levels are high, it can't exert its influence and cause gyno. Also, did you try caber? If you did and it cleared up the gyno symptoms, that would be evidence of the gyno being caused by progestin since caber is not a serm.

Nolvadex is actually known to make gyno worse while on tren or deca. Do a Google search and you'll find 100 threads about it.

I never used caber no. But all I know is that I never get gyno on test and adex. Soon as I add in deca above a certain amount or tren at any dose I get gyno.

Also. Progesterone gyno is different to estrogen gyno in my experience. Estrogen gyno is simply a small hard lump under the nipple. I had that before and was lucky enough to completely get rig of it with high dose letro for a few weeks.

Progesterone gyno though leaves no lump. It makes the nipple soft and puffy looking and it has a weird throbbing sensation that I don't get from estro type gyno.

I can only go by my experience with things. We are obviously all different but imo there are 2 different and distinct types of gyno.

[BowHunter]

Damn, OK. Well, I can handle tren at 50 mg ed while taking either a-dex or aromasin so hopefully, I won't have a problem. If I do have a problem, deca is really slow to get out of the system. I would probably stop the deca; up my dose of test and take letrozole to try and get the test/estrogen balence in favor of test.

[Bouncer]

Avoid letro at all costs. Will make your joints feel 700 years old.

[BowHunter]

OK, good call; aromasin then. Bori's right. I am overthinking it.

I'll let y'all know when my stuff gets here and I'll post my numbers as they come in.

[Androman]

Aromasin, if won't be harsh on your lipids either. And no rebound


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[BowHunter]

I had my baseline tests on Friday. Still waiting on free test and IGF-1. PSA was 1.75 (doc says normal), total cholesterol=199, LDL=149, HDL=39.