Syno-Prop Conversion (Is this correct?)

[Lmg2701]

I copied this from another site, cleaned it up a bit and put it into word and made it a pdf. Can someone tell me if this looks correct.

*Note This is only for entertainment purposes and I would never and have never done this.

[KeepinItReal]

Bro those are the directions. I have a couple freinds that make their Prop this way and say it is MUCH less painful then Vet prop. Very time consuming though, will take you a couple days letting everything dry and filter. Keep us posted on how yours turned out. PEACE! KIR

[spidey]

Some guy called Majutsu at EF apparently had some test prop (obtained with dazed kit) lab tested and found it to contain 0.2% estradiol benzoate. That means for every 100mg test prop you shoot, you are shooting 0.2mg estradiol benzoate.

All in all, I think that is pretty good separation but someone should suggest to dazed that he include two vials of the estrogen solubilizer so that the process could be repeated twice. That should get it all I would think.

[Lmg2701]

I heard that the more you rinse it with the water the more estrogen will be removed that's why it is advised to rinse 2-3 times.

[spidey]

Yes, but without the solublizer (whatever that is), estradiol benzoate is insoluble in water so you can wash as much as you want but it will still be there.

[Reload]

Sodium hydroxide..."Red Devil Lye" (NaOH).
This is why some kits come with PH paper. You want your final product as neutral as possible before you convert it hence the water wash (I would recommend a minimum of 4). NaOH is a very strong base and is used in RDL as a drain cleaner. That's right...draino.

[spidey]

Originally posted by Reload
Sodium hydroxide..."Red Devil Lye" (NaOH).
This is why some kits come with PH paper. You want your final product as neutral as possible before you convert it hence the water wash (I would recommend a minimum of 4). NaOH is a very strong base and is used in RDL as a drain cleaner. That's right...draino.

NaOH will not separate estradiol benzoate and testosterone propionate; at least not and keep the esters intact.

One might think that since the phenolic 3-OH of estradiol is weakly acidic, the NaOH would deprotonate it and form a water soluble salt but that can't happen in this case because the ester is attached to the 3-position in the estradiol and not the 17-position. This means that the acidic (phenolic) 3-OH is masked. The remaining 17-OH is a secondary alcohol with a pKa of around 18. That means if deprotonated, the resulting alkoxide would be 100 times more basic than NaOH; it is to thermodynamically uphill for it to happen.

Now, for those kits that give test suspension, NaOH is probably the "separating solution". In that case, the NaOH removes all the esters giving test base, estradiol sodium salt, propionic acid sodium salt, and benzoic acid sodium salt. All the sodium salts are water soluble and only the test base is not.

[Chemo]

Originally posted by spidey
NaOH will not separate estradiol benzoate and testosterone propionate; at least not and keep the esters intact.

One might think that since the phenolic 3-OH of estradiol is weakly acidic, the NaOH would deprotonate it and form a water soluble salt but that can't happen in this case because the ester is attached to the 3-position in the estradiol and not the 17-position. This means that the acidic (phenolic) 3-OH is masked. The remaining 17-OH is a secondary alcohol with a pKa of around 18. That means if deprotonated, the resulting alkoxide would be 100 times more basic than NaOH; it is to thermodynamically uphill for it to happen.

Now, for those kits that give test suspension, NaOH is probably the "separating solution". In that case, the NaOH removes all the esters giving test base, estradiol sodium salt, propionic acid sodium salt, and benzoic acid sodium salt. All the sodium salts are water soluble and only the test base is not.

???

...which is a good reason why NaOH is not used to keep intact esters and preserve the separation. Which is more a more powerful alkoxide: secondary or tertiary? The point of using a big, strong base is to take advantage of steric hinderance while still utilizing a stronger base than a secondary alkoxide (think tert-butoxide).

Chemo

[Reload]

Your correct in that NaOH yields TNE. This is the basis for Animals Sep kit. He incorporates another chem as a secondary EB remover but as to what that is...I don't know. I have done this both with/without a kit using NaOH as the solublizer in removing the EB leaving TNE. I am very prone to E sides so I used Nolvadex ED while on just in case the 5 to 6 washes didn't rinse it thoroughly. I would usually end up with about 17.5 g of TNE when all was said and done. Add the cost of a 10 cart kit to your pellets and your paying twice as much for something that can be had in its pure form. I never intend on needing to use this process of seperating the EB from TP again but for those who are ambitious...it's a fun project.

[spidey]

Originally posted by Chemo
???

...which is a good reason why NaOH is not used to keep intact esters and preserve the separation. Which is more a more powerful alkoxide: secondary or tertiary? The point of using a big, strong base is to take advantage of steric hinderance while still utilizing a stronger base than a secondary alkoxide (think tert-butoxide).

Chemo

In answer to your question, tertiary alkoxides are about an order of maginitude more basic than are secondary alkoxides.

Now, here's one for you: What will happen when you try to dissolve your secondary alkoxide (made by deprotonating the 17-OH of estradiol benzoate with sodium t-butoxide) in water in order to separate it from the water insoluble test prop? Here's a hint: it is thermodynamically impossible to have a stronger base than hydroxide in the presence of water.

Secondly, what does steric hindrance have to do with anything?

[fleabag711]

actually you are all wrong in one way or another. NAOH works but 1 hour takes care of the estrogen and doesnt hurt the test prop ester. 24 hours makes TNE. Yes there are more chemicals that work but you are just juggling around different potencies and time amounts. A different strong chemical just calls for different directions. You don't change what your using, you just modify it's application for what your doing in this case. tert butoxide works, Naoh works. Both can make prop! kitmakers sometimes use NAOH and not just for TNE.

[Bouncer]

actually you are all wrong in one way or another. NAOH works but 1 hour takes care of the estrogen and doesnt hurt the test prop ester. 24 hours makes TNE. Yes there are more chemicals that work but you are just juggling around different potencies and time amounts. A different strong chemical just calls for different directions. You don't change what your using, you just modify it's application for what your doing in this case. tert butoxide works, Naoh works. Both can make prop! kitmakers sometimes use NAOH and not just for TNE.

might want to look at the date of this post. lol. last post before yours was 12/30/03. 4 years ago..