Why is the perception out there that a cycle of orals will not keep any gains?

[Stonecold54]

I don't understand why people think that using an oral only cycle will net the person nothing as far as keepable gains. While I agree it is not the wisest of choices nor the most cost effective to say that an oral cycle is worthless is far from the truth. Lets think about it, injecting test is merely adding extra horomones to your bodies existing levels. taking an oral is adding extra horomone to your bodies natural level. Orals are essentialy just faster acting than injectables. I would like someone to explain why the muscle gained from an oral only cycle is different than muscle gained from an injectable cycle? why is one considered easier to keep. if anything coming off injectables is harder with the longer half-lives. you would think because orals clear your system faster and hence allowing you to jump on PCT faster you would be able to keep more gains. Any questions or comments welcome.

[jipped genes]

thats a can of worms bro.

i think alot of that is due to the opinion that any cycle should be based around test.

as for retaining gains a dbol or drol only cycle will yield gains very quickly. the human body resists change and tries to get back to homeostasis after exploding with so much mass. also you get alot of water retention from both those drugs when you come off you just loose a bunch of water making you loose mass and weight quickly. a winstrol or anavar only cycle will get around the water retention prob but you wont make the gains like on test.

as for pct. its pretty much the same although long ester tests are self tapering meaning you still have active drug in the body until you start PCT 2 or so weeks later so there isnt much dif between the 2 where pct is concerned.

i think some can make good gains on a oral only cycle and even keep some good mass but like you said its not the most cost efficient way to cycle and you will have less of a rebound with a longer injectable cycle. IMO

[anatole]

It is not a matter of efficiency since for example Dbol and eq have virtually the same structure, except for the 17 alpha alkyl group. You are limited because of liver clearance and toxicity of orals, so basically you'll never reach the amount of AAs you may get with injectables in blood. Plus as you said the half life of orals is shorter,thus you dont maintain a steady level in AAs, thus less effect on muscle buildup which is a slow process. just my 2ccs

[ICEMANOK]

When most people take 17aa AAS they put on a lot of water weight and I dont think they relise how much of it is water weight so when you go off you lose a lot of water weight and they think it is muscle they are losing. That is just what I think about it. I could be wrong.

[KeepinItReal]

Thats a VERY good response Jipped. PEACE! KIR

[spidey]

Originally posted by anatole
It is not a matter of efficiency since for example Dbol and eq have virtually the same structure, except for the 17 alpha alkyl group. You are limited because of liver clearance and toxicity of orals, so basically you'll never reach the amount of AAs you may get with injectables in blood. Plus as you said the half life of orals is shorter,thus you dont maintain a steady level in AAs, thus less effect on muscle buildup which is a slow process. just my 2ccs

On your comparison of EQ to dbol:

Yes, dbol and EQ only differ by the 17-methyl group but that is a big difference in terms on biological activity. 17-alkylation changes AR binding, generally making 17-methyl steroids less androgenic then their non-alkylated analogs. 17-Alkylation also changes the anabolic character. 17-Alkylation changes a steroid so much that it is an entirely different steroid with different androgenic and anabolic characteristics. It is forced down an entirely different metabolic pathway.

On your contention that the blood levels of orals are limited by liver clearance and toxicity:

17-AAS are not cleared by the liver. That is precisely what makes them liver toxic. The liver can't oxidize them and clear them. I have read reports of people taking 100mg dbol ed. That most certainly will produce blood levels on par with injectables. Anadrol is routinely taken at 100 to 150mg ed. Again, even with their short half lives, by splitting the dose througout the day, high blood levels are easily achieved.

[STALKER]

THAT IS SO NOT TRUE..I HAVE DONE ALL ORAL CYCLES PLENTY OF TIMES WITH ANAVAR BEING THE BEST OUT OF THEM ALL.. I KEPT ABOUT 90 PERCENT OF ALL MY STRENGTH AFTER TAKING TIME OFF FROM LIFTING.. I THINK YOU MAY GET BETTER RESULTS FROM A CYCLE OTHER THAN ORAL AND MIGHT BE ABLE TO KEEP BETTER GAINS BUT IT IS NOT TRUE I DISAGREE AND THATS MY OPINION ONLY.. GENERAL STALKER :D

[KeepinItReal]

Stalker my brutha. I think anavar is an exception brutha. Although I do beleive that a cycle of Abombs or dbol will definitely net some gains, they wont be all that impressive without test and some other gears to stack with it. But think about this: IS the only reason you are making better gains on a cycle with oil based products because you get more mgs/week of gear? I mean, you cant really slam down 2000mgs/week of tabs. So is this really the reason? If we could slam down 2000mgs/week of abombs or dbol, wuld our gains be that much greater? Probably, but we know that just isnt possible because of liver, kidnay and prostate problems that would occur in doses like that. Not to mention thickening of the blood, immediate high bp, ect..... Plus, how good do we all really feel mentally and physically when going on only tabs? I did it YEARS ago on dbols and felt like shit after a few weeks. I beleive test always has to be there. Just my 2cc's. PEACE! KIR