peg400

[rocketman]

i know peg400 can be used for oral apps. however, can it be used ofr injections ? is it sterile from lemange ( sp ) ? how can it be sterilized if it is not from the co. ?

thanks, rocketman

[superchicken]

yes it can be used for inj.

no its not sterile. thats why you sterile filter it before injecting.

[rocketman]

thanks SC for replyin'. bro ya say that ya have to sterile filter the peg before injecting, but isn't the filter just a "sterile filter" & not a sterilizing filter. sure it gets the "big stuff" but what about the germs ( for lack of a better term ) ? will peg have to heat sterlized in addition to running it thur a filter too ? dun no ... just asking ....

thanks, rocketman

[superchicken]

a .44 or even better .22 filter will filter out almost all bacteria. yes some stuff can still make it through. thats why we use benzyl alcohol. it kills bacteria. ba can take 2-3 days to kill bacteria depending on what its trying to kill. there are things that can survive ba though. heat should kill them, but some things can survive even very high heat.

bottom line though, filtering and adding ba should be by far enough. think of how much bacteria is on your skin. alcohol swabs dont kill bacteria, they smear it around. you still push bacteria into your body when your peirce your skin w/ the needle.

also when you inject air into a vial before you draw. you inject bacteria. the amounts are very small, but its there. the amount of bacteria left after filtering is very small too.

you can bake if you like, but i never bother. the amount of bacteria is miniscule. think of how many thousands of finakits have been converted without baking, just filtering. ive never heard of an infection.

[golilla]

dying of curiosity, what is peg400?

[spidey]

Originally posted by golilla
dying of curiosity, what is peg400?

Polyethylene glycol. It is a polymer; the number refers to the average molecular weight, in this case, 400.

[spidey]

Originally posted by superchicken
a .44 or even better .22 filter will filter out almost all bacteria. yes some stuff can still make it through. thats why we use benzyl alcohol. it kills bacteria. ba can take 2-3 days to kill bacteria depending on what its trying to kill. there are things that can survive ba though. heat should kill them, but some things can survive even very high heat.

bottom line though, filtering and adding ba should be by far enough. think of how much bacteria is on your skin. alcohol swabs dont kill bacteria, they smear it around. you still push bacteria into your body when your peirce your skin w/ the needle.

also when you inject air into a vial before you draw. you inject bacteria. the amounts are very small, but its there. the amount of bacteria left after filtering is very small too.

you can bake if you like, but i never bother. the amount of bacteria is miniscule. think of how many thousands of finakits have been converted without baking, just filtering. ive never heard of an infection.

Pretty good explanation. One little thing though:

A 0.20 micron filter WILL filter out ALL bacteria and even spores. This is the preferred method of sterilization for cell culture media where the slightest contamination by bacteria or spores can spell disaster for the cell line you are trying to grow. If your culture isn't 100% sterile, your efforts are doomed to failure.

A 0.45 micron filter will filter out something like 99.5% of all known bacteria but it is too large to be effective in filtering out spores (either mold spores or bacterial spores like staph). A good friend of mine found this out the hard way. He filtered his test prop with a 0.45 and then baked it at 150 deg C (302 deg F) for 2 hours. He developed a staph infection about 2 days after his first injection. I took his obviously contaminated test prop and re-filtered through a 0.2 micron filter and used it myself; no infection.

[rocketman]

i thought that ya didnt need to go that "narrow" when filtering due to the BA variable. so, using BA is not totaly suficiant ( sp ) then ? if not, i've been really lucky then.

thanks

[Rottweiler]

Damn spidey, I want to your wisdom on this stuff :) Teach me ! hahaha!

[spidey]

Originally posted by rocketman
i thought that ya didnt need to go that "narrow" when filtering due to the BA variable. so, using BA is not totaly suficiant ( sp ) then ? if not, i've been really lucky then.

thanks

Like I said, 0.45 is good enough for just plain old bacteria but spores will go through (they are smaller). Some types of bacteria can go into a dormant state when the environment isn't optimum for their growth; they form spores. Spores are smaller than bacteria (average 0.3 microns or so). They are also resistant to many things that would be lethal to ordinary bacteria. They can tolerate extreme heat and cold; they can even tolerate straight bleach! Trust me when I say that the little bit of BA in your oil will not even touch them. The ONLY reliable method for removing them is to filter with a 0.2 micron filter.

Once a spore is deposited in an environment that has an ideal temperature and sufficient nutrients and water (ie, your muscle bed), the dormant bacteria will revive and presto, you have an infection.

[golilla]

how much slower is a .2mic filter in comparison to a .45? Is it worth while to run all my stuff through a .2 or is it going to be a painfully slow process.

[spidey]

I really didn't notice much of a difference in terms of effort. It's a pain in the ass either way :) . I have filtered as much as 100 mL in one sitting and my hand was NUMB, LOL.