Growth hormone effects on metabolism, body composition, muscle mass, and strength.

[bigscott]

It is clear that the anthropometric ramifications, especially with respect to muscle mass, of the metabolic actions of GH and IGF-I treatment in intact and GH-deficient adults require further study. At present, it appears that daily GH or IGF-I treatment modestly increases nitrogen retention in most normal adults, probably by separate but permissive mechanisms, but only for a short period of time (approximately 1 month). During prolonged GH administration, resistance to the anabolic actions of GH seems to occur, and optimizing the anabolic effects of GH or IGF-I treatment will require a better understanding of the interactions among GH, GHBP, IGF-I production, IGFBPs, the GH dose regimen, and other unidentified regulatory factors. On the basis of the similar increases in muscle protein synthesis, muscle cross-sectional area, and muscle strength observed in placebo and GH-treated exercising young adults, it is doubtful that the nitrogen retention associated with daily GH treatment results in an increase in contractile protein, improved muscle function, strength and athletic performance. Even in catabolic or GH-deficient populations, GH treatment provides only modest increments in nitrogen retention, muscle size, strength, and exercise capacity. Further, the side effects of GH treatment (water retention, carpal tunnel compression, insulin resistance) would be a detriment, rather than an aid, to athletic performance. In addition, whether prolonged (> 6 months) GH treatment alone or in combination with other agents used by athletes (e.g., anabolic steroids, beta-agonists) is associated with other adverse side effects (e.g., cancer, diabetes) has not been evaluated. Therefore, health professionals should continue to discourage the use of GH by exercise enthusiasts.

[bigscott]

[During prolonged GH administration, resistance to the anabolic actions of GH seems to occur, and optimizing the anabolic effects of GH or IGF-I treatment will require a better understanding of the interactions among GH, GHBP, IGF-I production]

i maybe wrong but to me this is saying you should not run gh constantly as it loses its effectiveness -- so cycling it would be better ?

[Bouncer]

i have seen studies that say the exact opposite. "the longer you run it the better".

[bigscott]

i have seen studies that say the exact opposite. "the longer you run it the better".

thats what i thought aswell - its just todays gh sucks

[NYCmitch25]

interesting...

[liftsiron]

[During prolonged GH administration, resistance to the anabolic actions of GH seems to occur, and optimizing the anabolic effects of GH or IGF-I treatment will require a better understanding of the interactions among GH, GHBP, IGF-I production]

i maybe wrong but to me this is saying you should not run gh constantly as it loses its effectiveness -- so cycling it would be better ?

That's why we run it five days on two days off, this seems to prevent both GH resistance and insulin resistance. Also running exo T3 with hgh is a bad mistake because the T3 increases IGF binding proteins and negates any anabolic effect from the gh. One reason why you hear so many users swear that they only got fat burning effect but not any increase in mass or strength.

[Bouncer]

That's why we run it five days on two days off, this seems to prevent both GH resistance and insulin resistance.

thought that was just to save money. lol. not sure those 2 days off does much of anything..

[liftsiron]

thought that was just to save money. lol. not sure those 2 days off does much of anything..

Certainly does in regard to insulin resistance anyhow.

[Bouncer]

Certainly does in regard to insulin resistance anyhow.

wouldn't that be dose related? lets say your dose is only 2 iu a day. i doubt 2 days off will make any difference. now if you are running 10iu's a day, it might make more sense.

you have any studies showing that 2 days of Gh per week helps with slin resistance?

[liftsiron]

I have seen studies, I don't have time to look for them at present, rather 2ius or 10ius, hgh runs it's course in a few hours, unlike test we are not talking about half lives in relation to dose here.

wouldn't that be dose related? lets say your dose is only 2 iu a day. i doubt 2 days off will make any difference. now if you are running 10iu's a day, it might make more sense.

you have any studies showing that 2 days of Gh per week helps with slin resistance?

[Bouncer]

I have seen studies, I don't have time to look for them at present, rather 2ius or 10ius, hgh runs it's course in a few hours, unlike test we are not talking about half lives in relation to dose here.

talking about the ability of 2iu to really change much in terms of slin resistance.

[liftsiron]

talking about the ability of 2iu to really change much in terms of slin resistance.

Here is an interesting study on EOD injections


EOD GH injections are better!..... study says

A very thorough well controlled 4 year study published on
The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87, No.8 3573-3577
clearly shows every other day (EOD) hGH injections to be much more beneficial in the long run to everyday injections. Everyday injections seems to drastically lower your body's sensitivity to it's own GH secretion. The study included children with idiopathic short stature, but can be ever casting on us, normal non-deficient hGH individuals who may use hGH periodically for bodybuilding, sports and health purposes.

The 38 children were divided into 2 groups:
Group I received daily hGH injections.
Group II received alternate day hGH injections.

It is important to note that the total weekly dosage of hGH was the same for both groups.

Both groups received the hGH therapy contiguously for 2 years.
Their natural growth was followed for an additional 2 years after hGH therapy ended. They were all measured at 3-month intervals during the 4 years period (2 years with hGH therapy and 2 years after). Their Serum GH was measured by double antibody RIA kit.

During hGH therapy, both groups accelerated their growth substantially.
Group I receiving the daily hGH injections first & second year velocity was 3.4 and 2.3 SD Group II receiving the alternate hGH inj. had 3.0 and 2.0 SD for first and second year respectively.

Over the initial 6 months after withdrawal of therapy, growth velocity decelerated to a low nadir -3.9 SD score for the daily therapy group, whereas it decelerated in the alternate day group to only -0.2 SD score.

During the 2 years off therapy, the later group (taking EOD injections)
maintained growth rates of -0.2 to -1.2 SD score, which is similar to their SD score prior to the hGH treatment. The daily group also recovered but very slowly, on the fourth semiannual evaluation off therapy. The cumulative 4-year growth velocity (2yrs on and 2 yrs off therapy) of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily therapy group (mean, 0.9 vs. 0.3 SD score).

At the end of the 4-yr therapy period, the adult height prediction of the alternate day group was greater than that of the daily group by a mea of 6.5cm (that's over 2.5" in height, quite a lot of difference)

In even simpler English, to translate what it may mean to us is that using hGH everyday will only negligibly give better short-term results. Yet using alternate day hGH will give radically better long-term results and much better recovery. As the body may get back to homeostasis much faster.

Remember the two groups got the same weekly total hGH dosage,
so your every other day hGH injections would be twice as if you used
it every day.

The researchers said, the dose was of less impotency than the schedule of the injections. Daily hGH therapy for 3 years caused subnormal growth persisting for 1.5 years (very bad)

It may be that the problem is not enough hGH or IGF-1 secretion but rather
the body's decreased sensitivity to it. The interesting part is that the serum GH levels and serum IGF-I and IGF-binding protein remained unaffected or relatively mutely affected. Even your body's endogenous pulsatile secretion of GH resumes within just days even after long-term hGH therapy.

The researchers hypothesis is that the tolerance may be in the "GH signal transduction in selective target organs in response to the disappearance of the unique pulsatile pattern of serum GH during GH therapy". You see, hGH taken via sc injections do not imitate the your body's own GH secretion.
"Indeed, daily sc administration of GH results in an unphysiological serum GH profile, with peak levels at 4 h and a slow decline over the course of the following 12–24 h. This pattern can be regarded as continuous administration, rather than the physiological GH pulses, with a frequency of about eight per day."

"Assuming that the withdrawal syndrome is related to tolerance that might have developed toward hGH or IGF-I, we tried to prevent it by alternate day treatment. Moreover, hGH doses used in therapy often stimulate IGF-I to supraphysiological serum levels, suggesting that target tissues IGF-I may also be higher than normal. The mechanism seems, therefore, to rest with hGH and IGF-I action at their target tissues. We now show that alternate day therapy
with hGH in children with an intact GH-IGF-I axis prevents the withdrawal syndrome"

Researchers mark the analogy to another endocrine tolerance and withdrawal syndrome:
"alternate day therapy with glucocoricoids prevents tolerance to that hormone to a substantial degree, "Interestingly, glucocoricoids withdrawal syndrome can also occur while the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis is intact (8), indicating that tolerance to glucocoricoids has developed
at the target organ level (9). "

An example of a good safe protocol to follow in my opinion could be

hGH taken for 4 months (16 weeks) or more at 8IU every other day,
split to 4IU three hours after waking up (say 11:00am)
and another 4IU taken 4 hours later (say 3:00pm).
This approach is quite conservative and may be optimal.

Obviously, you may extend past 4months, and take more IUs per day.
This approach goes with 8IU EOD, so it is equivalent to folks that would
otherwise go with 4IU ED, which is what most do.

There is some controversy as to how many of these IUs the body
can utilize at once

Obviously, there are lot of studies, some better conducted, some less.
Lots of opinions and doctrines in endocrinology, bodybuilding etc..
So you should make your own decision, I guess old individuals on
hGH for life would not mind, as no rebound would affect them. Professional
bodybuilders probably wouldn't mind as well.

I would rather follow a protocol like this. For most part due to the
nasty rebound that I could get after withdrawing from long-term ED hGH treatment.
Nothing worse then look awesome, stop hGH then after several months having:
Low body sensitivity to your own body's GH.
Slow recovery
Decline in resting cardiac output
Increase fat mass
Decrease in metabolic rate
Negative nitrogen balance, phosphorus, sodium and potassium.

Again, I said "could" not "would", because this study cannot absolutely manifest
our use of hGH. Moreso, we are not children, we are not idiopathic hGH deficient
and not aGHD. But since the weekly dosages do remain the same as well as the
duration of the hGH usage. Just changing to the EOD protocol from the well
hyped everyday inj protocol is worth in my honest opinion. It seems statistically
a better bet, with more chance to win, than loose as opposed to the ED protocol.

I just tried to summarize the findings of the study, which was by the way,
a pleasure to read as the study is well written and was prepared by
Dr Hochberg, MD, a renowned well respected figure in endocrinology.

You can read the full article with all the graphs and details here:
Prevention of Growth Deceleration after Withdrawal of Growth Hormone Therapy in Idiopathic Short Stature -- Lampit and Hochberg 87 (8): 3573 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
With references to 23 studies.

[Bouncer]

what were the dosages in that study?

what i am suggesting is low dose every day as opposed to higher dose every other day. i would think the results would be the same if you were to do 2iu everyday compared to 4iu every other day.

[ROCKETW19]

not sure about the ED verus the EOD but I can tell you from personal experance that with me the GH stopped working in about 1 1/2 years. I now only use it for a year then stop for 3-4 months then start again.