The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[Control]

So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.

Yes, basically. With front delts on push day and rear delts on pull day.

[Control]

Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off

I just didn't mention cardio. I usually do cardio on off days but sometimes I do cardio on days I lift too.

[Control]

great post control


i recall u mentioning that sometimes u dont have time to work out and bust out a workout in 20 mins.
how is that satisfactory to you? i feel like if i dont sweat or am at the gym for at least an hour i get frustrated and feel that i have cheated myself.

does it matter how long ur work out is or if u break a sweat?

That's rare, I usually spend 45 minutes to an hour in the gym.

However, if I'm in a situation where I have to squeeze a workout into 20 minutes I can do it ,and sometimes if I have to choose between a 20 minute workout and and just skipping the gym all together I'll hit the gym for 20 minutes (especially if I know I won't have time the next day.)

In 20 minutes I can superset pec-deck flyes and weighted dips for 5 sets each then have time for a drop-set on the military press machine. If the intensity is there, you can suffeciently stimulate the muscle that quickly.

[Scrumhalf]

So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.

[Nekrawulf]

Dont get me started haha

[dna9488]

Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off

[Mr.Mafioso]

great post control


i recall u mentioning that sometimes u dont have time to work out and bust out a workout in 20 mins.
how is that satisfactory to you? i feel like if i dont sweat or am at the gym for at least an hour i get frustrated and feel that i have cheated myself.

does it matter how long ur work out is or if u break a sweat?

[NewbieChris]

Okay, so the key to the situation is the control of compound movements in connections with the idea that you are keeping the training intense? Interesting.

[Control]

I think that is the point, but its not every other day.

I think in terms I can understand Control, your workout would look something like this?

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Pull
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: off

and then you rotate through it that way like you would any none 7 day workout pattern?

And the other was:

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Pull
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: off

Right?

Yeah push/pull/legs is the pattern no matter what but you could do it lots of different ways, 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 on off, 3 0n 1 off whatever.

My question is about non-beginners. You're taking someone who has done multiple exercises and multiple reps down to such a minimum number. Does that have the same impact on muscle growth?

Lets say your typical chest workout is

4 sets bench
4 sets cable crossovers
4 sets incline dumbell press
4 sets decline bench

now on your push day you're still doing
4 sets bench
4 sets dips
4 sets cable crossovers
(plus lateral raises and maybe tricep pressdowns)

That's 12 sets for chest instead of 16, but instead of hitting chest once every 7 days you're hitting it once every 5. So the overall work load is acually more in the long term. Once you've been lifting for awhile and you get that strong mind-muscle connection and you really learn how to focus your intensity you can start to get more out of fewer sets, at least that's been my experience.

[NewbieChris]

arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..

I think that is the point, but its not every other day.

I think in terms I can understand Control, your workout would look something like this?

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Pull
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: off

and then you rotate through it that way like you would any none 7 day workout pattern?

And the other was:

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Pull
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: off

Right?

My question is about non-beginners. You're taking someone who has done multiple exercises and multiple reps down to such a minimum number. Does that have the same impact on muscle growth?

[Control]

arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..

No cuz you have leg day and you still have off days. So instead of this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

It would look like this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Push

Wednesday: Pull

Thursday: Legs

Friday: Off

Saturday: Push

Sunday: Pull

(then the next week starts with legs on tuesday then push on wednesday etc)

You'd be hitting each muscle group once every 5 days.


That's assuming you want to keep the same days off during the week (in your case mondays and fridays). I usually lift 2 on 1 off, but it depends on how I feel and what I've got going on.

[Bouncer]

Well for a pull day I would do one type of row, one type of pull-up/pull-down, one type of curl, then either upright rows or a partial deadlifts (maybe a shrug if you want). Then I'll usually do rear delts to finish up. The next workout it's a different type of row and a different type of pull-up/pull-down etc..

For push days I'll do 2 different presses (bench, military press, dips), a flye movement, and usually lateral raises of some kind. If I have extra energy I might do tricep pressdowns or raises to the front.

Legs is usually just a quick warm-up on the bike and then squats followed by leg curls or romanian deads. Once in awhile I might substitute leg presses for squats but not often.

Time plays a factor in this too. If it's a weekday and I'm strapped for time, push day might just be bench press and dips. I can knock that out in 20 minutes and know that I've hit chest, front delts and triceps. On a saturday I might end up doing 10 different exercises cuz I have more time and I tend to eat and rest a little more on the weekends.

arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..

[Control]

Does that help^^^^?

Control, that was a very thought-provoking post. Can you post a recommended routine since I have never thought about your approach very deeply?

[Control]

maybe i will give it a try for a month or so and see how i like it. only way to know is to give it a try.

so how exactly would you lay it out. i know for example i wouldnt want to do all my pulls in one day. know what i mean?

Well for a pull day I would do one type of row, one type of pull-up/pull-down, one type of curl, then either upright rows or a partial deadlifts (maybe a shrug if you want). Then I'll usually do rear delts to finish up. The next workout it's a different type of row and a different type of pull-up/pull-down etc..

For push days I'll do 2 different presses (bench, military press, dips), a flye movement, and usually lateral raises of some kind. If I have extra energy I might do tricep pressdowns or raises to the front.

Legs is usually just a quick warm-up on the bike and then squats followed by leg curls or romanian deads. Once in awhile I might substitute leg presses for squats but not often.

Time plays a factor in this too. If it's a weekday and I'm strapped for time, push day might just be bench press and dips. I can knock that out in 20 minutes and know that I've hit chest, front delts and triceps. On a saturday I might end up doing 10 different exercises cuz I have more time and I tend to eat and rest a little more on the weekends.

[Scrumhalf]

Control, that was a very thought-provoking post. Can you post a recommended routine since I have never thought about your approach very deeply?