The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[dna9488]

Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off

[Nekrawulf]

Dont get me started haha

[Scrumhalf]

So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.

[Control]

great post control


i recall u mentioning that sometimes u dont have time to work out and bust out a workout in 20 mins.
how is that satisfactory to you? i feel like if i dont sweat or am at the gym for at least an hour i get frustrated and feel that i have cheated myself.

does it matter how long ur work out is or if u break a sweat?

That's rare, I usually spend 45 minutes to an hour in the gym.

However, if I'm in a situation where I have to squeeze a workout into 20 minutes I can do it ,and sometimes if I have to choose between a 20 minute workout and and just skipping the gym all together I'll hit the gym for 20 minutes (especially if I know I won't have time the next day.)

In 20 minutes I can superset pec-deck flyes and weighted dips for 5 sets each then have time for a drop-set on the military press machine. If the intensity is there, you can suffeciently stimulate the muscle that quickly.

[Control]

Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off

I just didn't mention cardio. I usually do cardio on off days but sometimes I do cardio on days I lift too.

[Control]

So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.

Yes, basically. With front delts on push day and rear delts on pull day.

[Chadd77]

Great post control. I'm looking to change things up a little and really considering this approach.

[Control]

Today was a push day

Dumbell military press
weighted dips
pec-deck
tricep press-down lying on the floor (I guess you could call these cable skull-crushers)

[coffee-guy]

Dont get me started haha

PLEASE do bro - why withhold knowledge - I would love to hear your thoughts even if you prefer to start another thread...

[Bouncer]

PLEASE do bro - why withhold knowledge - I would love to hear your thoughts even if you prefer to start another thread...

exactly. i want to hear what he has to say also.

[Nekrawulf]

The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

[NewbieChris]

The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

So, you are for the most part in agreement with Control?

Let me ask everyone this question, but I'd really like to hear the answer from yourself and Control. Seeing as how doing more isolation movements works some muscle groups secondarily, like how bench works triceps...How does this apply to someone who is constantly lifting heavy objects on a regular basis in their normal day? Isn't that what 'lifting' is supposed to emulate? So isn't your argument studded by the fact that some people do heavy lifting for a job and then workout and still don't over train? I hope that makes sense...

[Nekrawulf]

So, you are for the most part in agreement with Control?

Let me ask everyone this question, but I'd really like to hear the answer from yourself and Control. Seeing as how doing more isolation movements works some muscle groups secondarily, like how bench works triceps...How does this apply to someone who is constantly lifting heavy objects on a regular basis in their normal day? Isn't that what 'lifting' is supposed to emulate? So isn't your argument studded by the fact that some people do heavy lifting for a job and then workout and still don't over train? I hope that makes sense...

I agree with Control in that he is taking a step in the right direction, but he has yet to take that jump.

For the most part, "typical" splits are NOT an emulation of true life work. When is the last time you did the following exercises in a real life situation:

Curl
Lateral Raise
Bench Press and its variations
Anything to do with a cable crossover.
Anything to do with a Smith Machine.
Anything to do with Machine assisted movements.
Leg Press
Leg extension
Leg Abduction
Leg Adduction
Elliptical Training

And quite simply... and isolation exercise... period.

So while you are at a gym, performing all of these exercises and forming an adaptation to them, they do very little to help you run faster, punch harder, lift objects more efficiently and a myraid of other daily activities.

In response to your point on overtraining.

If they are doing this heavy lifting at their job, every day, homeostasis and physiological adaptation will ensure that they no longer incur the same stress at the job day in and day out.... it is similar to training in that the body exibits generalized adaptation to physical stimulus.

Homeostasis is bodybuilding worst nightmare, and it is what athletes in this culture struggle with day in and day out.

Beating homeostasis is the key.

I am perfomance based in my training as opposed to size based. So my split is adjusted fir this.

To give you an idea of how I break down the mechanics of my split, I divide it intot he following catgories:

push
pull
hips
core
speed
work

I use 3 primary methods to achieve this:

Gymastics(this includes plyometrics and agility based exercises)
Met-Con (any movement of combonation there of that illicits a metabolic response across 2 or more metabolic pathways)
Weightlifting Techniques (more importantly, Olympic Lifts and variations there of)

I mix and match these 3 different components daily, and I rarely have 2 of the "same" workout in a month.

Homeostasis is my bitch and I an evenly developing across all 10 domains of fitness.

[Shibby]

My question is , in no way meant to be questionable, how did you two educate yourself on this? It's great to hear these perspectives, but I also would like to know how you came upon these thoughts. I have done a lot of compound movements in the recent time, but it's not for mass building. I have had a feeling of being more symmetrical in the sense that my body works together in it's goals instead of having "dead spots" or lagging parts. Does that make sense?

[coffee-guy]

This rocks - thanks for adding to the thread Nekrawulf - I'm learning as you guys type/share/discuss!!!!