Lean Gains vs. Extreme Bulking

[coffee-guy]

I know that this question has been proposed before but it has never really been focused on people who compete. How does everyone else go about making killer gains year over year?

I read about pros who stay lean etc but they are already at a pretty damn reasonable size and I'm not there yet. Last year I almost hit 215 at 5'8" with no more than 12% bf and a 33.5" waist. When I leaned out for my first show I only got down to about maybe 6% bf, 30" waist, and 175 pounds.

My trainer told me that staying no more than 20 pounds over contest weight would be ideal to ensure I come in leaner and harder next time but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that idea. I pictured myself shooting up to about 230, no more than 12%-13% bf so I could get as much muscle as possible but I didn't like the way I felt being that large before.

I understand the diet side of how to make lean gains and how to really bulk (without getting out of control) and I haven't ventured into anabolics yet (though I may in the fall). I guess I just wanted as many opinions as possible.

[go Yankees]

I know that this question has been proposed before but it has never really been focused on people who compete. How does everyone else go about making killer gains year over year?

insulin and growth hormone

[coffee-guy]

insulin and growth hormone

I know the GH would be key but wouldn't the insulin increase bf stores while running it or does the GH counteract this?

[go Yankees]

in all seriousness (as if I wasn't before) natural bodybuilders don't make "killer gains." I was talking to a top-level amateur bb this weekend -- who is actually natural -- and he said that he's around 205 right now, and is competing as a middleweight. So I asked him about Tricky Jackson (won 2005 NPC nats as a MW) and he said he and Garrett Alin are both 235 now, but that they're both taking stuff, while he's not

basically, what I got out of all this, and everything else I've seen competition-wise, you need to take freaky chemicals to get freaky big.

the other thing with pros is, they have to be lean year-round for photo shoots and guest posing and stuff, which is how they make a lot of their $$$. I've also heard a pro say something about staying around 10-12% so that his skin doesn't get too stretched out at that increased size

now, back to your 20 lb. thing...I agree, I think if you stay leaner in the offseason, you will be a little ahead of your starting point, and you'll be able to diet a bit harder and come in a bit leaner

but...back to anabolics...Lmg will probably pick up where I leave off, but unless you're genetically disposed to carry the muscle of Paul Dillett, your "killer gains" seem to come through drug use. I tried to stick my head in the sand once, but I think I saw the light when I was there in the third callout at my last show, spending all the time on the side staring in at the 30-something year-old, mass monsters in my weight class

[go Yankees]

I know the GH would be key but wouldn't the insulin increase bf stores while running it or does the GH counteract this?

yeah...insulin's a tricky one. For one, it is the most anabolic hormone there is, or something like that. Second, it shuttles nutrients to your muscles, but it also rushes fat to fat stores. If you take slin PWO, you're supposed to wait 4 hours or something before you eat any kind of fat. Insulin also increases the deposits of visceral fat around your internal organs, which coupled with organ growth from GH and IGF, contribute to the distended guts in pros

I think through carefully watching your diet you can stay somewhat lean on insulin

[coffee-guy]

I've done a ton of research on insulin and I know that you can stay somewhat lean but some bf increase is inevitable due to the shuttle factor of ALL nutrients.

In regards to your "callout" scenario I understand. I felt comfortable in my skin with the novice class in my first show but the second I saw the middleweights in the open class I knew I was out of my league. Not only were they much quicker and well-poised with quarter turns etc (you could literally feel the wind rush by you as they turned) they looked to me like they could have easily been light-heavys with the amount of muscle they were carrying.

yeah...insulin's a tricky one. For one, it is the most anabolic hormone there is, or something like that. Second, it shuttles nutrients to your muscles, but it also rushes fat to fat stores. If you take slin PWO, you're supposed to wait 4 hours or something before you eat any kind of fat. Insulin also increases the deposits of visceral fat around your internal organs, which coupled with organ growth from GH and IGF, contribute to the distended guts in pros

I think through carefully watching your diet you can stay somewhat lean on insulin

[go Yankees]

definitely...as you go on further and see bigger shows, the MWs start looking like LHs, the LHs look like heavies, and if you go to a really big show (like nationals), the super-heavies look like pros

it really gets to you when you see their level of conditioning, and realise they're as lean -- if not more lean -- than you are, except with about 20 lbs more muscle, it seems

[Lmg2701]

I will always from now on highly recommend that when you are adding weight add lean muscle.

The whole deal with pigging out and bulking to great extents is ridiculous. If you want to eat a lot then eat a lot of the right stuff.....brown rice, sweet potatos, protein enriched spaghetti, meat, meat, meat.


You will be so much happier 1) because you won't be a big fat ass and you'll have a nice body 2) it will be a lot easier to diet for competition cuz you'll already be in great shape 3) you will develop a great eating habit


And if occasionally you want to binge then go for it cuz you'll deserve it.

[beefcake]

I also think extreme bulking leads to more stretch marks. Adding lean beef is my style now. I'm also trying to keep my endurance up as well.

[go Yankees]

as far as leanness, I agree with Lmg...always try to stay fairly lean, I've heard pros say they don't like to go past 10% in the offseason. If you have a whole lot of fat to lose, you'll probably lose a bit of muscle with it too when you diet down