Worst President in History?

[Chris]

Originally posted by goliath
the last time that th US forcefully invaded and occupied a foreign nation was in WWII with our ocupation of germany from, i believe 45-49. the only reason we did invade germany was because they were striving for world domination. that pissed us off. god gave US permission to dominate the earth - not them. so we kicked them off the playground.

Some of this is joking, I hope? The part about God giving up permission to dominate the Earth. I hope you don't actually feel that way. If you are trying to make a point that we as the US try and control everything, I agree we do. But when you are the most powerful nation in the world you become the policeman if you want it or not. Only in western society though...

Originally posted by goliath
We also occupied japan for a short time - and lets not forget what we did to those poor bastards! we killed hundreds of thousand of men, women and children with 2 bombs. if that's not terrorism i don;t know what is. significantly larger in comparrison to the 2700 that al-quieda claimed on 9/11 don;t you think? once again, the US is praticing that double-standard, hipocracy bullshit.

The reason Japan attacked us, and she did attack us first, was because we were stopping shipments or some stupid shit like that. Nothing very valid. We tend to over-react when we get attacked because we aren't used to it. You can say its like being a big guy. People wanna beat you up just because you are big and they think A) You pose some type of threat and B) They might get respect if they win. If they don't win they better be ready to go to the hospital in bad condition. Which is essentially what happened to Japan, not to mention the "humanitarian aid" we did send over afterwards.

So our attack was not unprovocked, but Al Queda's 9/11 attack was a little bit different. I'm not putting an okay sticker on what we did, but there is a difference.


Chris

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by meat12
Wow this post is one of the three things you never start a conversation on..... religon, politics and money

I'm out on this

don't forget abortion and homosexuality!!!!! LOL ;)

[acuman]

I'm glad to see that people can talk without taking it personally, that's why I joined this board 'cause of the level-headed people on it.
Just for the record, the Kurds tried to use the chemical weapons on Sadam's forces, but they had to retreat, and so Sadam used Chemical weapons on them. The whole freakin region is a mess - your dealing with people that are NOTHING like us...f-ing barbarians in a lot of ways, for the most part. I have friends from that region, so I can't say all of them are.

Also, the idea of overthrowing Iraq's gov't was started in the Clinton Administration.

I don't think anyone should vote on just one issue, whether it be war, abortion, or whatever.
Today, corporations and big contributors write the policies and laws, so vote for the people who actually give a shit about us, the people trying to climb that ladder, and not only think about the people already at the top rung.

[goliath]

the germany thing was a a bit of a joke. they had to be stopped; they were invading their entire continent. japan attacked us because we were going to join the war eventually anyhow. they were allies to germany and they knew that we would intervene shortly - they simply, and foolishly, thought they could get the upper hand by launching a major attack on the naval base that we would have used to attack them when we joined the war. obviously it didn't work.

saddam however was one man, in his OWN country. he was not attempting to take over the world. there are much easier ways to get a tyrannical dictator out of power than sending an army to burn down cities, level his country, and still come up empty handed for months. we have the best trained assassins in the world along with the most elite special forces. if you think that the war in iraq was intended only to remove saddam from power - then you really are ignorant.

chris - do some reading on hiroshima and nagasaki, then come back and talk to me about the ensuing "humanitarian aid". it was the least we could do after wiping out entire populations. "oh uh,sorry about that. here are some MRE's." and al-quieda's attack on us was not all that different. al-quieda has been at war with us for years, we just did not acknowledge them as a threat until 9/11.

[goliath]

Originally posted by acuman
The whole freakin region is a mess - your dealing with people that are NOTHING like us...f-ing barbarians in a lot of ways, for the most part.

i think that sums it up best. war is their way of life. they have been fighting for centuries and will fight for many more, i'm sure. it's all they know.

[Shibby]

Originally posted by goliath

saddam however was one man, in his OWN country. he was not attempting to take over the world. there are much easier ways to get a tyrannical dictator out of power than sending an army to burn down cities, level his country, and still come up empty handed for months. we have the best trained assassins in the world along with the most elite special forces. if you think that the war in iraq was intended only to remove saddam from power - then you really are ignorant.

I'm not a history major what so ever, but in refernace to germany how fast was hitler taken over places in the begining? Sadaam was trying to take over other countries but didn't succed since we interveened imidately. But how far would it have went if we didn't have a financial intrest in it?

[goliath]

Originally posted by Shibby
I'm not a history major what so ever, but in refernace to germany how fast was hitler taken over places in the begining? Sadaam was trying to take over other countries but didn't succed since we interveened imidately. But how far would it have went if we didn't have a financial intrest in it?

who knows. the only point i was trying to make is that the force used far exceeds the force needed to remove the man from power. so it seems reasonable to assume that removing him from power was not the only goal, correct?

[Chris]

Originally posted by goliath
chris - do some reading on hiroshima and nagasaki, then come back and talk to me about the ensuing "humanitarian aid". it was the least we could do after wiping out entire populations. "oh uh,sorry about that. here are some MRE's." and al-quieda's attack on us was not all that different. al-quieda has been at war with us for years, we just did not acknowledge them as a threat until 9/11.

As for the begining of your post...they didn't just attack us cause they thought we were going to "get into the war" there were other factors. I don't remember exactly, but we wanted them to give us half the railraods they developed in China or something. They said no. Then we boycotted their products and stopped shipment of natural resources to them. They were pissed off at us, and finally decided they should do something because, yes, they knew we would enter the war.

Okay, heres the deal...there were quotes around "humanitarian aid", because as I was using it, and it was not a very good supporter of what i was trying to prove because A) What is sending over a few medics and a few barrels of medicine? and B) because I also understand it was something we should do, but the fact is we did send it. Unlike the Al Queda

As far as our war with the Al Queda, we have acknowledged them as a threat since the first attack on the trade centers and even before that, we just didn't take it too seriously. My point is, you can't compare the two. We are/have been in a "war" with the Al Queda for a little while, but we were never at war with Japan. The two situations are not so alike.

Chris

[Chris]

Originally posted by goliath
who knows. the only point i was trying to make is that the force used far exceeds the force needed to remove the man from power. so it seems reasonable to assume that removing him from power was not the only goal, correct?

I agreee.

Chris

[goliath]

chris - i think we are actually on the same side of the fence on a lot of these issues. well...at least in the same zip code. i don;t doubt for a second that there were several other factors contributing to japans decision to attack us, in fact, i know there were. i used japan as an example simply to illustrate that we kill thousands of men women and children too - but when we do it it is "in the persuit of liberty freedom and justice for all".

[Chris]

I know we are on the same side with most of these issues after reading your posts. I just like to clear up how I think of things. I hope there are not hard feelings. :)

Chris

[goliath]

Originally posted by Chris
I know we are on the same side with most of these issues after reading your posts. I just like to clear up how I think of things. I hope there are not hard feelings. :)

Chris

of course not! arguing on the internet is a great way to pass the time and take study breaks! lol

[Chris]

Discussion, not arguing. :D

Chris

[goliath]

Originally posted by Chris
Discussion, not arguing. :D

Chris

bah - i like to argue! lol - i can;t do it with my wife so i need to do it somewhere. how bout, 'heated debate'. that cool?

[Shibby]

Originally posted by goliath
bah - i like to argue! lol - i can;t do it with my wife so i need to do it somewhere. how bout, 'heated debate'. that cool?

that sounds like a :ghey: lovers quarl, and you know what Bush thinks about :ghey: