Worse Than Watergate

[bigpetefox]

Originally posted by Keiser
I think it would be good for the country to get bush out of office, and I also think it would be bad for the country to have Kerry in office.

So, i've decided not to vote and just drink beer.

Let me know when, I'll bring the lime Tostitos.. :drunk: :agree:

[Gongshow]

Originally posted by redsquirrel
No one can enforce it, it's the tax payers who pay for it; me and you. The current debt has been caused by the war, and the numerous government sectors associated with it; bankruptcies, unemployment,... you get the idea.

the debt may have be created by it....but the war was actually good for the economy, added 70 billion dollars of spending, which we needed, if we didnt go to war, where would the spending come from in what was a shitty economy to begin with>

[funniirishman]

Look if you actually think that all this economic downfall is created by the three years that George Bush was in the White House you are sadly mistaken...Decisions that impact the economy as substantially as ours have been impacted do not take three years to cultivate..Clintons economic policy was a debacle and we are now just feeling the impact of it..Im not saying that a bunch of dipshits launching the largest ever terrorist attack on American soil didn't help things..but the events had been put in place for the last eight years or so...

[Primal Instinct]

Originally posted by Keiser
conservatives talk with their actions, liberals, well, they just talk.

I certainly wouldn't consider Bush/Cheney conservative. They are neoconservatives which isn't really conservative at all. They are ideologues. An ideologue is someone who ignores all empirical evidence against their beliefs or theories and only embraces that which could possibly support their arguements. They have no interest in facts if the fact don't support their goals. To them, all that matters is the end result and not the price that is paid to get there. It is OK to make certain facts appear to fit their arguements regardless of the validity/credibility of what they purport to be true, as long as their ultimate goals are met. They follow the theories and teachings put forth by Leo Strauss. There are several in the Bush administration who are disciples of his teachings, one of which was Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowicz, who earned his Phd under Strauss at Chicgo University in the mid sixties. Others who come to mind are Richard Perle, Dick Cheney, Steven Cambone, William Kristol, etc... All are big players in our government today.


Americans should get to know who they are supporting and what these people actually stand for. Here is a link about Leo Strauss. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15935 You can always look up other Strauss sources if you like, as you are expected to do your own research.


True conservatives want less government (we now have much more government intrusions into our lives), strong military (Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, Wolfowicz, Perle, et al... believe in a smaller military force with lower pay grades but big spending on potential high tech weapons including small-scale tactical nuclear weapons for use in combat situations), balanced budgets (This is the highest deficit created in the shortest amount of time in the history of the US government- 9/11 attacks were NOT the main reason either) and a strong centralization of power from all aspects of the government with relation to foriegn policy.

Generally speaking, the State Department, Department of Defense, and Foriegn relations Committee are normally consulted BEFORE White House foriegn policy is made. In the case of the Bush Administration, these knowledgeable sources of information were not consulted prior to policymaking decisions but instead brought in later to try to fix the problems that arose that were unforseen by the White House. Everything in US policy- foreign or domestic- is run by the political arm of the White House. Nothing is discussed in an honest and open dialogue. The White House did not do their homework on many issues (foreign and domestic) and it shows. True conservatives in government are really pissed off about this administration because they claim to represent one set of values but do not actually do what they claim. They harm the credibility of true conservatives in government.


Here are the power players in US government today and what they hope to accomplish. Notice the names of the people who signed the Statement of Principles letter and the letter to Clinton in 1998 advocating him to invade Iraq. Yes, these same people who got their wish with Bush (it was a planned invasion before Bush took the Presidency- Bush just happened to be the right guy to push the idea on). When that attempt failed, they wrote a letter to then Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich urging to push the idea through Congress. Here is a link to help people understand more about where the current policies came from and where they are headed unless changes are made at the top: Project For The New American Century

[pudgy]

wait, they make lime tostitos ?