question on terri schiavo

[johnstephenson]

Originally posted by TheStromba
If you have not seen the video I posted above, watch it.

Either the doctors are wrong, or the video is a fraud. A women that is brain dead cannot open her eyes on command.

I am pretty conservative when it comes to how my taxes are spent, but I have NO problem with this.

Fuck giving Iraq, Saudis' Isreal money and aid -

Fuck paying for health care for illegal immigrants.

THIS is what tax dollars are really for, to care for and protect the most helpless in society.

Damn rights bro.. I agree 100%

[imonboardtoo]

Stromba - You turned me around, man. That website has alot of stuff besides video. It's powerful. That guy is a total dirtbag. I volunteer to help him starve to death!

[house1]

my biggest peeve about this whole issue is the overstepping of congress-

its time to put some limits on congress -- they believe there is none at this point -

it becomes very dangerous if the government feels they can just step in and change things when they feel like it -

they didnt belong in the baseball stuff and they sure the fuck dont belong in this matter

[Primal Instinct]

Originally posted by TheStromba
If you have not seen the video I posted above, watch it.

Either the doctors are wrong, or the video is a fraud. A women that is brain dead cannot open her eyes on command.

Stromba,

I watched these videos and saw the same clips (but much longer footage on ABCNews and MSNBC). I have to take issue with this whole thing. We see a short video clip of Terri's face with her moving her eyes around. We have no true context for these clips on this website. This clip has been edited to only show what is purported to be "response" and possibly "interaction" yet on the full uninterrupted clips, the parents were repeatedly and unsuccessfully trying to illicit response from Terri prior to this and even after.


For the first clip of Terri opening her eyes, we have no baseline information concerning how long the family was prodding her to respond to this same command. We need to remember that there is over 6 HOURS of videotape taken by Terri's parents. This is the best that they can offer to bolster their case? For all we know, they were repeatedly asking Terri to open her eyes for 2 hours before this edited version and then at some point, she did. This doesn't mean that she responded to their commands. She may have just woke up and nothing more. Show a complete clip with the prior activity and maybe that would convince me. However, dozens of respectable medical professionals HAVE reviewed such complete footage and have spent actual onsite time with her. They have concluded that there is no conscious and controlled movements from Terri. There is also no upper brain functions either, as it is dead and replaced by spinal fluid. It was strictly the intact lower brain stem activity which governs respiratory and other involuntary physical functions that Terri exhibits. The state and federal courts all have repeatedly agreed with this based upon seeing the ENTIRE evidentiary findings that WE don't have complete access to.


These clips are edited to appear as if Terri is alert and responsive. These clips are designed to create a fervor and muster support for the continuance of her life support sytem. A feeding tube IS life support.


I have also seen the balloon clip in much more detail than we are shown from this site's clip. I've noticed that there were no full shots of the man holding and moving the balloon in front of Terri, only closeups of Terri's eyes moving and a man speaking in a rewarding tone. However, the full scene shown on the news had a man standing in front of Terri moving a balloon in front of her but if you really looked closely, he was moving the balloon to follow HER eyes, not the other way around. This could be evidenced by his sudden changes of direction AFTER her eyes darted the opposite direction. There is no credibility to that videoclip.


We need to remember that the site you linked to is NOT an objective site. It is motivated by personal (or more likely political or religious Right-To-Life groups) concerns. Of course, Terri's parents will do anything to keep her physical remains alive, even though she has no human consciousness characteristics left. I believe that the parents have actually convinced themselves that Terri can be cured someday or that living like that is better than dying. I feel that their motivations are no longer geared towards Terri's benefit, as much as for their own selfish interests. They need to let her go peacefully. As for the claims of money for the husband, they are all bunk. This demonization of him is rediculous. He spent most of the settlement money on Terri's healthcare and lawyer fees over the last 10 years or so. We'll see who REALLY is interested in money when Terri's parents sue the husband in a civil court for punitive damages.

[cowgirl]

We don't know if Terri is feeling any pain,
but the whole nation is "in" pain
as we try and make sense of this whole issue.

:(

[TheStromba]

PI

I realize that the site has an agenda.

There is so much bullshit on both sides, its hard to know what to believe.

I am also not really objective because
I don't think that it is humane to starve someone to death. You would get put in jail if you did it to a dog.

If it was a respirator, it would be different in my opinion.

I admit that I want to believe the videos.

If there is ANY doubt about her condition, then this should not happen.

[Primal Instinct]

Fair enuff, Stromba. I have been speaking to some friends in different areas of Fla recently (orlando, West Palm, Tamps-Clearwater and Jacksonville) and they have been bombarded locally on their news stations with reporters reporting unvetted information and heresay. If it infuriates people enough one way or the other it is good for them because reporting on protesters/arrests = good viewer ratings for their network. This whole ordeal is saddening.

[Turbo3000]

If you actually think because she opens her eyes for a short clip in a video then she really is interacting then you need to be shot. I am so tired of this shit on the news, and I am so tired of the government sticking its head in everything now. Too bad a lot of people are asking the government to get into this situation. SHE IS A VEGETABLE. How can you not see that?

[johnstephenson]

Okay bud if you had a kid and this happend to her then call her a f@#*ing vegetable...In your opinion thats all she is, Not to her parents, and anyone who thinks otherwise should be SHOT.. (Not fair to judge if it isn't your kid). I would love to have someone with big enough balls to tell me my kid isn't worth saving because they think she's a veggie. And I dont know why everyone is mad at the government because they gave all you veggie believers what you want. That's why I f@#%ing hate them.

[Turbo3000]

Okay bud but I am just letting you know, I could honestly say to you if that was my child I would believe his/her spouse and proceed with those wishes. I would not want my child to go through that for 12+ (however many years). I don't think I would let them go after 1 year, but after some time enough is enough.

[Primal Instinct]

Originally posted by johnstephenson
Okay bud if you had a kid and this happend to her then call her a f@#*ing vegetable...In your opinion thats all she is, Not to her parents, and anyone who thinks otherwise should be SHOT.. (Not fair to judge if it isn't your kid). I would love to have someone with big enough balls to tell me my kid isn't worth saving because they think she's a veggie. And I dont know why everyone is mad at the government because they gave all you veggie believers what you want. That's why I f@#%ing hate them.

My younger brother was pulled off of life support when he was a toddler. It was the correct decision, IMO. It is not an easy decision but my parents did what they thought was in the best interest of him, not their personal wishes to keep their little boy alive for their own benefit. It's a hard call to make come crunch time but you need to consider the quality of life that the person in question would inherit from such a decision.

Skip ahead 20 years....I had to make a decision with my family to refuse life support and sign a DNR form for my grandfather, whom I was VERY close to. This man actually died in my arms in the hospital. The crash cart came in and after several minutes, the team rescusitated him. However, he had not been breathing for close to 5 minutes and by the time that he was "revived", he was taking huge gulps of air every 30-40 seconds. They could have put him on a ventilator and probably kept him alive (in the physical sense) for some time but he would certainly not be alive in the conscious or mental activity sense. He was a very kind and intelligent man and had on occasion stated that he would never want to live on a life support system. It was a difficult thing to do for US but we knew it was the right thing to do for HIM.

The hardest part was knowing that we would say our last goodbyes and never be able to see or speak with him again after that day. After all, his physical fate was in the most real sense, in our hands. He went into cardiac arrest again about an hour later and I left the room at that point (having already made my peace with him) because I couldn't stand to see him die again. However, for me it would be worse to see him having to live on a life support system as a severely brain damaged patient, knowing that he would not have wanted to finish his days on earth like that.

[pierced one]

i dont like this whole thing. the problem i have with this is wether it be a human or an animal, starving it to death is wrong. i can see everybodies view, and no one is wrong except the people slowly killing her. If they are going to do it give here a leathal dose of a drug and put her out of here missery. Come on people, starvation is no way to go. give her a little respect.


house- you are totally correct here too. we are losing more and more control. i wouldnt want them to make my dicision for me.

[johnstephenson]

Originally posted by Primal Instinct
My younger brother was pulled off of life support when he was a toddler. It was the correct decision, IMO. It is not an easy decision but my parents did what they thought was in the best interest of him, not their personal wishes to keep their little boy alive for their own benefit. It's a hard call to make come crunch time but you need to consider the quality of life that the person in question would inherit from such a decision.

Skip ahead 20 years....I had to make a decision with my family to refuse life support and sign a DNR form for my grandfather, whom I was VERY close to. This man actually died in my arms in the hospital. The crash cart came in and after several minutes, the team rescusitated him. However, he had not been breathing for close to 5 minutes and by the time that he was "revived", he was taking huge gulps of air every 30-40 seconds. They could have put him on a ventilator and probably kept him alive (in the physical sense) for some time but he would certainly not be alive in the conscious or mental activity sense. He was a very kind and intelligent man and had on occasion stated that he would never want to live on a life support system. It was a difficult thing to do for US but we knew it was the right thing to do for HIM.

The hardest part was knowing that we would say our last goodbyes and never be able to see or speak with him again after that day. After all, his physical fate was in the most real sense, in our hands. He went into cardiac arrest again about an hour later and I left the room at that point (having already made my peace with him) because I couldn't stand to see him die again. However, for me it would be worse to see him having to live on a life support system as a severely brain damaged patient, knowing that he would not have wanted to finish his days on earth like that.

Im very sorry to hear that bud, but my point being is the starving to death, The gov't is so gun ho on saving lives all over the world and sticking the nose in others buisness saying that other countrys are doing wrong to there people but cant even be humain to there own, They are being cruel, I ment i could never starve my kid.... Im sorry if i said anything to offend anyone, But the gov't looks like a bunch of hipocritical (hope i spelled it right) assholes. I cant understand how anyone in there right mind could agree with starvation, oh well people's I will shut up on the subject now and i will hope for the best for family and friends of hers, and unfortunatlly the husband too, it cant be easy. Again i am sorry to hear about your loss it could not have been easy.

[dreamgirl]

THE LATEST...

Have you all heard the latest? When she dies, the husband wants to have her cremated and the parents want to bury her and now the parents are taking him to court on this. My God, he is getting his way with her starving to death, let the parents bury their daughter, WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL??? Why would he be so cruel about this now? Let the parents bury her, why would he make this a huge 2nd issue?

UGH???

[blm]

Re: THE LATEST...

Originally posted by dreamgirl
Have you all heard the latest? When she dies, the husband wants to have her cremated and the parents want to bury her and now the parents are taking him to court on this. My God, he is getting his way with her starving to death, let the parents bury their daughter, WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL??? Why would he be so cruel about this now? Let the parents bury her, why would he make this a huge 2nd issue?

UGH???

I haven't heard anything about that....

"George Felos, the attorney for husband and guardian Michael Schiavo, said Monday that the chief medical examiner for Pinellas County, Dr. John Thogmartin, had agreed to perform an autopsy.


He said her husband wants definitive proof showing the extent of her brain damage. Michael Schiavo contends his wife told him years ago she would not want to be kept alive artificially under such circumstances."