question on terri schiavo

[Primal Instinct]

Re: THE LATEST...

[/QUOTE] My God, he is getting his way with her starving to death, let the parents bury their daughter, WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL???



WOW, is that a disturbing statement or what? HE is getting HIS way with her starving to death?! We're not just a bit biased here now, are we? Maybe it's Terri getting HER way, or doesn't THAT count for anything? A feeding tube IS life support, Dreamgirl. IF she didn't want to live for decades on life support that would require the removal of the feeding tube.

Bottom line- WE DON'T KNOW what Terri's personal wishes were and neither does the media. None of us or them (including her parents) were there if she made such a statement, so making personal judgements based upon an unsubstantiated news report is simply not an informed opinion.

Question:
As an adult, do you tell your parents EVERYTHING that you share with your husband? I highly doubt it. So how can you reasonably assume that she didn't discuss this topic with her husband at some point in time?

[bad14u]

Re: Re: THE LATEST...

Originally posted by Primal Instinct

As an adult, do you tell your parents EVERYTHING that you share with your husband? I highly doubt it. So how can you reasonably assume that she didn't discuss this topic with her husband at some point in time? [/B]

Not everything...but at Easter when the family was around we all discussed what we wanted and no one wanted to go on living like that. My girlfriend and my mother both now know that they had better pull the plug or whatever they have me hooked up to.

On a side note....the president of our booster club had a brain aneurysm on Friday and is now brain dead and on life support. Her 18 year old son had to make the desicion whether or not to pull the plug. They are taking her life support tomorrow. She was a doctor and in great health. He wants, as well as his mother wanted, her organs to save the life of another person.

Too bad Terri's organs won't be able to do that now!

[blm]

Honestly, I am so tired of hearing about this. Living in Florida, I hear it everywhere, school, radio, tv, bars, social gatherings. At times I find myself saying "who fkng cares let her die." I actually have to force myself to be sympathetic of the whole scenario because I have become so intolerable due to the media and government attention overkill.

[bad14u]

I think it is pretty ironic that bulimia started this whole thing over a decade ago. I mean...she was purging herself to lose weight and get attention. Now she is being starved and getting all the attention.

[spidey]

A couple points:

1. CAT scans have shown she has no cerebral cortex and it has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Furthermore, her brain scans show a complete flat line for brain wave activity even when she appears to be looking around; pure reflex action. SHE HAS NO MEASURABLE BRAIN ACTIVITY. PrimalInstinct already addressed the "video" so I won't go into it but to remind everyone that it is just a series of small clips edited together to create the appearance of interaction and response. The unedited version shows the complete opposite. I could film a venus flytrap for hours until I saw it close refexively as a breeze tripped the sensor hairs. Then I could edit the tape and say "close" when the trap closed and create the illusion that the plant was responding to my command. That doesn't make it true though does it? That is a very apt analogy to what they did with this "video".

2. Terri also told her best friend of her end of life wishes so it isn't just her husband's word.

3. Several former nurses of Terri Shiavo have come forward about Michael Shiavo's care and treatment of his wife. They say he was virtually rabid about her quality of care to the point of inconveniencing everone else. He even had to be removed on at least two occasions he was raising such a fuss that he didn't think they were treating her good enough. After over 15 years of being bed-ridden, she has never even had a bedsore (which is quite a feat).

The parents have set about systematically trying to characterize him as abusive (at best) and a murderer (at worst). They have even went so far as to claim that her condition is a result of Michael strangling her and he is trying to kill her now to hide his egregious crimes. I hope he sues the shit out of them for slander when this is all over.

4. I hear some people saying "they wouldn't even starve an ANIMAL to death." Let me remind you that if she were an animal, they would have simply put her to sleep 15 years ago. They can't give her anything to hasten death; euthanasia is illegal. Letting her die naturally is all they can do.

5. Even though she can't feel pain in all likelyhood (no cerebral cortex), the hospice is still giving her morphine to ease her family's fears that she may be in pain. On the extremely small outside chance that she can feel pain (maybe they missed a little of that cerebral cortex in the CAT scans), that morphine will insure she doesn't suffer. Bottom line: She is not suffering. Her death will be calm and peaceful.

6. I now have a living will stating specifically that I do not want to be kept alive in similar circumstances. That isn't any kind of life.

[bad14u]

^ Excellent post Spidey!

[johnstephenson]

Hey why not give a guy who killed someone his last meal before being put to death, and starve a living woman who did nothing, I love the U.S gov't and there logic.....The all mighty gov't whom stands up for human rights and prevents human cruelty....my ass

[Scrumhalf]

Originally posted by johnstephenson
Hey why not give a guy who killed someone his last meal before being put to death, and starve a living woman who did nothing, I love the U.S gov't and there logic.....The all mighty gov't whom stands up for human rights and prevents human cruelty....my ass

I don't see what this sorry episode has to do with the US government.

In fact, if anything the US government is guilty of compromising all established principles of federalism by butting into an issue that was best left to the family and the courts to decide. I hope that this egregious act is duly considered in the next election.

If you are suggesting the US government should invervene any more than it has already done, you are not considering the fundamental federal/state division of powers that this country is based on.

[spidey]

Originally posted by johnstephenson
Hey why not give a guy who killed someone his last meal before being put to death, and starve a living woman who did nothing, I love the U.S gov't and there logic.....The all mighty gov't whom stands up for human rights and prevents human cruelty....my ass

Uhm.... excuse me. Why exactly are you railing against the goverment here? The "government" has done everything in it's power (and some things that are actually not in it's power) to have the feeding tube re-inserted. Governor Jeb Bush has done everything but actually kidnap her and insert the feeding tube himself. President Bush cut short his vacation and rushed back to Washington to sign a bill authorizing the federal courts to review the case in hopes they would order the tube re-inserted. He has also made numerous public statements about "erring on the side of life". Congress held an emergency session on the issue in the dead of night.

How exactly is it the government's fault that she is brain dead? How exactly is it the government's fault that she made statements to her husband AND her friends about not wanting to be kept alive in this situation? How is it the goverment's fault that through overwhelming medical evidence, Michael Shiavo won over 30 court battles to have the tube removed? Remember, the courts are not part of the executive or legislative branches of government (what most people refer to as the "government").

[Turbo3000]

FYI..New southpark on atm (est) that is based on all this bullshit.

Also, I have refused to express my personal views of this subject anymore. My friends mom went crazy on me last night and stated that Shiavo "can do everything except feed herself", I don't know where some people get their information.

[lxorl]

i think south park summed it up well last night.

[Gods Son]

its murder bro...sugar coat it all you want...Americas judicial system fails again.How many people commit suicide by starvation?its cruel and unusual... We have laws to prevent criminals from that type of suffering,but not the innocent

[spidey]

Originally posted by Gods Son
its murder bro...sugar coat it all you want...Americas judicial system fails again.How many people commit suicide by starvation?its cruel and unusual... We have laws to prevent criminals from that type of suffering,but not the innocent

Dude, she was no more alive than is a decapitated body kept functioning with a heart/lung machine. She had no more consciousness than that. Would you want to exist like that for 30 years? I know I wouldn't. Brain and nerve tissue does not regenerate. Once it is gone, it's gone for good. Without a cerebral cortex, it was flat out impossible for her to recover anything resembling a consciousness. She was already dead. Her body just didn't know it yet. Her EEG was a flat line even when she appeared to be looking around. Translation: pure reflex action. No measurable brain activity whatsoever.

In a couple weeks, the results from the autopsy will be available. I have no doubt they will be in the news post haste. The autopsy will provide irrefutable physical proof of the state of her brain and it's ability to function. Until then, people should chill out. We will all know for certain then.

Just some questions to ponder though: Have you ever discussed you end of life wishes with someone? Would you want to exist in the state T. Shiavo was in for an indefinite period of time with no hope of recovery? Say you didn't: What if your parents fought to keep you in that state? What would you think of that? What if congress completely overstepped it's constitutional boundries and usurped the judicial branch's territory to keep you in that state. Would that please you?

Until all this hoopla, I didn't have a written living will either. I told my wife and my friends what I wanted and took it for granted my wishes would be honored. This has opened my eyes bigtime. I downloaded the legal forms and filled them out. I now have a living will and a written power of attorney giving my wife (or my best friend if she is incapacitated) the power to make those decisions for me if I am unable to do so.

It's not murder IMO. It is mercy. Your brain is who you are. Your personality, memories, consciousness, all the little quirks that make you the person you are. Without a cerebrum, "you" are gone. All that remains is a shell of a body that has no consciousness of it's own. Even if the brain stem survives and thus you heart beats and you breath on your own, "you" are still gone and you are never coming back. Is it murder to let that shell cease functioning on it's own? I don't agree. Furthermore, it is infinitely preferable to existing in that state for years and years. I don't want to be remembered that way. I want to be remembered as a healthy, vibrant human being with my own little quirks and sense of humor. Not as a vegitable lying in a bed with my eyes darting aimlessly about

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by spidey
Dude, she was no more alive than is a decapitated body kept functioning with a heart/lung machine. She had no more consciousness than that. Would you want to exist like that for 30 years? I know I wouldn't. Brain and nerve tissue does not regenerate. Once it is gone, it's gone for good. Without a cerebral cortex, it was flat out impossible for her to recover anything resembling a consciousness. She was already dead. Her body just didn't know it yet. Her EEG was a flat line even when she appeared to be looking around. Translation: pure reflex action. No measurable brain activity whatsoever.

In a couple weeks, the results from the autopsy will be available. I have no doubt they will be in the news post haste. The autopsy will provide irrefutable physical proof of the state of her brain and it's ability to function. Until then, people should chill out. We will all know for certain then.

Just some questions to ponder though: Have you ever discussed you end of life wishes with someone? Would you want to exist in the state T. Shiavo was in for an indefinite period of time with no hope of recovery? Say you didn't: What if your parents fought to keep you in that state? What would you think of that? What if congress completely overstepped it's constitutional boundries and usurped the judicial branch's territory to keep you in that state. Would that please you?

Until all this hoopla, I didn't have a written living will either. I told my wife and my friends what I wanted and took it for granted my wishes would be honored. This has opened my eyes bigtime. I downloaded the legal forms and filled them out. I now have a living will and a written power of attorney giving my wife (or my best friend if she is incapacitated) the power to make those decisions for me if I am unable to do so.

It's not murder IMO. It is mercy. Your brain is who you are. Your personality, memories, consciousness, all the little quirks that make you the person you are. Without a cerebrum, "you" are gone. All that remains is a shell of a body that has no consciousness of it's own. Even if the brain stem survives and thus you heart beats and you breath on your own, "you" are still gone and you are never coming back. Is it murder to let that shell cease functioning on it's own? I don't agree. Furthermore, it is infinitely preferable to existing in that state for years and years. I don't want to be remembered that way. I want to be remembered as a healthy, vibrant human being with my own little quirks and sense of humor. Not as a vegitable lying in a bed with my eyes darting aimlessly about

dont even waist your time trying to explain. he will never agree and will never understand.

[meat12]

Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
dont even waist your time trying to explain. he will never agree and will never understand.

I agree, I have a cousin like that...some people are just not even worth arguing with