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:mad: I don't know what it is but I am getting really scared lately. It used to be good because the democrats and republicans (who i hate equally) would just bitch back and forth and nothing would happen. Bush tells these stupid lies that he doesn't want to give a withdrawl date because it will give the terrorists a "chance to inflict damage"....what does he think they have been doing? I am reading the Federalists Papers right now and one of the comments the Editors introduction struck me as relveant. It took the govt 2 years to come to a final constitution and ratify it. So why do we excpet to go in and FORCE a govt on a people who don't want it. and why are we trying to destroy and an abstact idea (Terror) with a physical bomb? does any one else see how crazy that is? The next election definetly is going to be bad I can just feel it. and then there is the matter of the supreme court....my lord I can see everything going down the drain. It may sound bad but has anyone every asked how much they are actually taxed and where that money goes and that they always want more? You get taxed on your income...you get taxed on stuff you buy with that income...you get taxed on money you save from that income. you get taxed if you invest that income....you get taxed if you die and someone inherits that income...you get taxed if you marry someone and combine that income. and then I watch the welfare rolls come in and see me every day...these people are the lowest of the low....not just down on their luck or temporarily unemployed these people are BUMS...I feel like kicking all their teeth out but then I would be forced to buy them new teeth and then pay for their viagra pills so they can make more babies with out fathers or mothers. :mad:
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I was thinking some of the same things today. A bit different though. I havn't ever paid attention to politics in the past. Over the last year I have been watching the news and what not more and more. I don't know if it has always been this way or if it's just something recent, but it seems the goverment is just a joke. I watch everything that goes on and it seems like one big soap opera. All show and you never know what is really going on. I know there are quite a few things that are best kept secret instead of panicing the american people. But what they do show seems to be all that, just show. It makes me less interested to get involved at all.Last edited by Shibby; 07-11-05, 08:54 PM. -
The "war on terror" is no different than Regan's "war on drugs" because you cannot wholly fight an ideology with concrete military or police action. It's more or less a smokescreen to justify wartime spending and keep the big businesses in record profits while lending the false appearance that your government was actually looking out for you and protecting us from something that was hyped up to begin with.
Regan's war on drugs signified a boom in prison building and privatization of running them. It helped to support the fear factor of rampant drug crimes and organizations like the NRA, and the gun manufacturing industry benefitted tremendously from the public fear. Record numbers of people bought into the fear and bought guns, locked their doors for fear of a drug crazed robber and were more apt to disregard other important domestic issues that required attention from our government. Same goes for Dubya and his abstract war on terror. People living in fear are more apt to trade off personal liberties and Constitutional rights for the mere spectre of security. The Patriot Act is a prime example of usurpation of US citizens' constitutional rights in many aspects, most of which deal with due process of law, search warrants issued on "suspects without any judicial oversight, and so on...
Just a thought....if military might could defeat a ideology such as terrorism, then why does Israel still have such trouble with the Palestinians and the intifadah? To change an ideology you must first change the circumstances from which it arises. If you have an anthill outside your home do you just kill the ants one at a time as they proceed out of the anthill or do you go after the anthill itself, which is the root cause of the ants on your property in the first place? By not dealing with the root causes of terrorism, you only continue to fan the flames and in the meantime, entire generations of potential terrorists grow up hating the west and in particular, the US. This is not good policy- unless the whole point of the exercise is to encourage such behaviors and thereby justify your need to continue spending trillions on an abstract war in weapons manufacturers like American General Humvees) and the Carlyle Group (the world's largest military weapons dealer), support services companies providing services such as fuel sales and transfer and food service for the US and British military in Iraq - namely Halliburton, and of course, your big weapons manufacturers like Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, General Dynamics, Raytheon and others. This continues until the public outcry shuts it all down. After all, it IS US taxpayer money (and loans with high interest) footing the bill. When they can't squeeze anymore blood out of the taxpayer, it goes away and big oil steps in to take their place on the second largest proven oil reserve in the world. It's business as usual and business is great lately under Dubya.
Consider this.....happy, educated, employed people with a chance at success in life and a family doesn't compromise a terrorist mindset. Why would they chance losing something good that they have invested themselves in? If you really want to curb terrorism, take your so-called allies like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to task. I mean REALLY take them to task. Shut down the Madhrasses and stifle the fundamentalist clerics who preach violence against anyone who doesn't conform to their bastardized religious ideology and you will seriously damage the recruiting capabilities of such organizations who seek to use a religious ideal to coerce followers into performing politically motivated attacks on the general public in any society around the world. If you stop and think about it, most of the heaviest recruiting usually takes place in 3rd world companies with weak centralized governments (Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Chechnya, Sudan, Phillpines, Indonesia, etc.,) and are somewhat removed from the world market. They are primarily agrarian cultures with poor or non-functional educational systems, generally have food and water shortages, high unemployment levels and has a population that are more likely to accept religious precepts of a fundamental nature. This holds true for many organized religions like fundamental Islam in the aforementioned countries as well as a strong following of fundamental christianity, such as to be found especially in South and Central America.
Change the circumstances that these people exist under for the better and you will see that the fundamentalist movement will weaken tremendously. The primary changes will eventually occur within the actual members of Islam (which is a peaceful religion) and at some point, these practicioners will seek to eradicate this radical minority element and start the process of eliminating these violent posers claiming to be dedicated to Islam but does not follow the precepts of Islam. Change also has to come from (primarily) the US and other western nations who need to tone down the arrogant cowboy rhetoric that serves to alienate even the moderate muslims to the point of apathy. We need a new direction and quality leadership in these areas. This doesn't mean to be soft on terrorism by any means, but just to approach it in a more intelligent and effect way. The US under "preemptive war" doctrine is a thinly veiled attempt at colonialization and nationbuilding. The arab nations are correct to fear the US intervention which DOES seek to overthrow many of the arab nations' leadership. This is highly unproductive and creates a sympathetic element on the arab street which will not lend their hands to help prosecute nor will it hinder the movements of the terrorists. We have a lot of fences to mend and need to treat other nations with a bit more respect if we expect them to help us in the hypothetical "war on terror".Comment
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I completely agree, stone....I was having the same thoughts recently. Especially after the London bombings. Bali, Madrid, London, were all a result of those coutries' troop occupying Iraq. Had we not invaded Iraq, which I still don't agree one iota it was a wise choice, it's VERY possible the lives lost in these bombings could have been avoided.
THEN I read that there is this New Freedom Initiave,(initiated by Bush) that basically voids parents having control over thier child in the public school system.The gist of this is basically our children become "guinea pigs", so to speak, and that parents have no right to to refuse treatment recommended. Bush has mandated that every American child, age 3-18 is federally ordered to be evaluated for mental heath issues and to receive "enforced" treatment. Welcome to life long profiling and drug addictions. Obviously, he has the interests of all the big drug companies in mind...Comment
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Where did you get your information? Have you researched it yourself or did you take someone's word for it? A liberal/dem/Bush basher's word maybe?
Read for yourself...
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/freed...nitiative.html
And not to confuse the issue with facts but the President does NOT just pass a law. The congress is in that business, so if you don't like a new law lay the blame where it belongs.Comment
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Originally posted by Shibby
It has always been thus.Comment
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Do some more independent research and see how long the muslim extremists have been bombing/terrorizing western interests and allies around the globe. All long before we ever "occupied" as you put it.Originally posted by redsquirrel
Try starting with this....
USS Cole
US Embassy Kenya
World Trade Center 1993Comment
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There is only one way to solve the ills of the nation and that is for the people and States to seceed from the Union of States as given by the Constitution. Oh sorry 14th amendment took that away.
I look at the government and see how socialist the government is becoming. The Supreme court jus ttook away all of our rights as land owners. We work hard to make money to support ourselves and families, yet the government takes it away to give to those who choose not to work. I think that we should send the dairy farmers to the factories, the factory workers to the wheat farms, and the fishermen to the wheat farms. I think Marx and Engles would really love that.Comment
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This is one of the reasons why the terrorists did what they did.By bestowing mistrust and paranoia into our government the good old US Babysitters decide to take away 1 freedom at a time from us in the name of protecting us from terrorism yeah right and I have ocean front property in Iowa to sell you all.
The terrorists don't need to attack us anymore they are sitting back and watching us self destruct ever so slowly and the sad thing is that the government doesn't see it.
We need someone in office that knows what the hell they are doing because for the last 50 years we haven't had a decent president in office.Comment
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"not just down on their luck or temporarily unemployed these people are BUMS...I feel like kicking all their teeth out but then I would be forced to buy them new teeth and then pay for their viagra pills so they can make more babies with out fathers or mothers."
I understand how you feel! We get scammed big time. At the hospital I work at immigrants who cross the border get free healthcare while everybody else has to suffer.Comment
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Actually it has been nearly 70 years thanks to comrade Roosevelt.Originally posted by IntensityX
I like to show my students the parallels between Ancient Rome and the United States as a way to show them what happens when people decide to give up freedoms and personal rights in exchange for "security"
Of course the only way to solve this is to rebell against the tyrants as is our guaranteed rights in accordance witht eh COnstitution. Unfortunately we are so saturated with our average lives that we won't, at least not for anopther few years until we lose our internet, digital cable, and cheap fast food.
Viva la RevolutionComment
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Originally posted by Megiddo
Mind telling me more about this?Comment
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Originally posted by IntensityX
The whole point of terroism is to garner attention to the terrorist cause, instill fear and incite anger in their targets and to effectively change the lifestyle and policies of the government that they are trying to affect. In that respect, Al Qaeda has already won. What is worse, is that we have officials in high office that know this and use our fears against us to establish a self-serving policy and not one which benefits the majority of the citizens. I don't care what label one uses whether it be liberal or conservative- it's all just a game of 3-card monty to distract us from the real issues. A divided populace is a beaten populace. That's why there are always such wedge issues bandied about by the White House. It draws attention away from the things that really matter to us all and keeps the heat off of them. Nothing gets accomplished that way.
We will never EVER have a middle class man or woman rise up and win the presidency. It would not be allowed to happen. Only the very wealthy will ever preside over our nation anymore and they will primarily act as a business agent to large multinational corporations. That is not what is in our best interests as a nation of law and freedoms. Multinational corporations have permeated every aspect of most world governments and they transcend international boundaries and more often, international and domestic law. You may or may not believe this but over 60% of US corporations don't even pay tax! We (the avergae guy) pays their share and we don't even demand fairness from our elected officials. This is who they really mean when you hear the term "New World Order" and we as just private citizens can do nothing about it because we don't as a people have enough voice in Congress from honest elected representatives on both sides of the aisle. Big business will insulate itself from real scrutiny by funding election campaigns and offering lucrative positions as directors on their boards. We need an infusion of honesty in our Legislative branch to overcome these roadblocks. We also need to start to take a personal interest in WHO we elect to represent us in the legislative and executive branches of our government. These are also the people who appoint the judiciary.
If people don't like the direction that their elected officials take the nation, then know who you are voting for and what the really stand for. Ignore all of the wedge issues like gay marriage and abortion and start to look at the big picture or else we will never regain true control of our republic. I love this nation and its people. It kills me to see such unanswered corruption, no accountability and to top it all off- voter apathy when we DO have a chance to change things. I can always hope...
Sorry for the rant...Comment
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]Originally posted by Shibby
Here are the basics as follows:
Rome started out as a colinial village controlled by foreign kings, the Etruscans. This village is a haven for criminals, slaves and other undesirables. Eventually the Romans overthrow their Estruscan overlords and setup a Republic. The slowly take over the Italian penninsula either by treaty or force until they meet a rival super power, Carthage. Rome wins the war becoming the dominant force in the known world. Soon civil wars break out and eventually one man takes power, Augustus, and gives the empire 40 years of peace. The empire now spends its time on subduing small pockets of terrorists in Asia Minor and spreading her forces thin in the north trying to create a frontier. Internal descent arises as new emperors take power and excess. A new doomsday cult arises which attracts many people. After nearly 800 years, Rome falls.
The U.S. started as a colony for Great Britain. The U.s. is ahaven for criminals, runaway servants, and other undesirables. Soon the U.S. overthrows the king's government and sets up a Republic. Soon the Americans overtake most of the continent by force or treaty. Civil war erupts and in an effect to prevent sucha war from happening, rights are taken away. America is taken over by a dictator, FDR, who wins WWII and the Pax America lasts for nearly 60 years with the U.S. fighting battles in an effort to exert influence over smaller nations. A surge of fanaticism and hatred from the Middle East casues the U.S. to spread its forces thin in an effort to protect itself. In exchange for protection, Americans give up freedom to keep away the boogeymen.
That is the quick explanation of it.Comment
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I guess what I'm missing, and I know I'm guitly of not knowing any better, is what you and PI mean about giving up freedom.Comment
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