Now, the government is REALLY starting to scare the shit out of me.

[redsquirrel]

Jesus Christ- that's quite a reach there.

You don't think there are umpteen thousands of criminals here in the US that the SAME thing happens to??? WTF kind of a comparison is that?

Did that woman have ANYTHING to do with why this whole thread started????

[Governor]

Jesus Christ- that's quite a reach there.

You don't think there are umpteen thousands of criminals here in the US that the SAME thing happens to??? WTF kind of a comparison is that?

Did that woman have ANYTHING to do with why this whole thread started????

no...lol


I was reminded of it and i tried to edge it in there to share it, sorry. :)

[Shibby]

Being a new parent soon to be, my view of when life becomes a life is a little different. I feel it becomes a life when you fall in love with the life inside the woman first. Then when the baby could survive outside of the womb and have a chance to be loved by someone, is beyond abortion as long as it dosn't harm the mother. Until the baby is loved or has a chance to be loved it can't be remebered as a life that was lost. I'm sure it's alot different from a mother's point of view and a father's point of view. I remember when I absolutly fell in love with my baby. It was at about 20 weeks when I first felt him move. At that point it became more than just an idea to me. It was real, and there was no way I could ever imagine giving him up.

[coffee-guy]

Being a new parent soon to be, my view of when life becomes a life is a little different. I feel it becomes a life when you fall in love with the life inside the woman first. Then when the baby could survive outside of the womb and have a chance to be loved by someone, is beyond abortion as long as it dosn't harm the mother. Until the baby is loved or has a chance to be loved it can't be remebered as a life that was lost.

When is your wife due bro? Congrats

[Shibby]

When is your wife due bro? Congrats

Interesting choice of words, but my girlfriend is due Sept. 6th.

[coffee-guy]

Interesting choice of words, but my girlfriend is due Sept. 6th.

Sorry man - I swore you referred to her as your wife a while back - maybe it was someone else that was asking you about it.

My son just turned one and it's fucking amazing - I hope you can spend every minute you are not working with him - I could swear he was 11 pds a couple of days ago when I could carry him like a football and now he's 3' tall and 31 pds - WTF?

[bad14u]

I'm really not trying to split hairs here, but I'm just throwing something else into the mix....so, Ok., if life begins at brain activity, then how come the baby couldn't sustain it's own life without the mother?

If a child is a human being once you determine brain activity, then how come the baby couldn't survive outside the womb?

You are better off trying to split hairs than get someone to answer that absurd question! GEEZ!!! That's like asking a woman that cuts hair for a living to rebuild an engine. Just cause there is a brain doesn't mean it is fully developed or have the knowledge to do something! Next time you are getting ready to bench, throw 500 pounds on the bar and press it 10 times. Can't be done, huh? Why not? The muscle is there and functional. Right? That's because you haven't trained that muscle to do so!

[redsquirrel]

You are better off trying to split hairs than get someone to answer that dumbass question! GEEZ!!! That's like asking a woman that cuts hair for a living to rebuild an engine. Just cause there is a brain doesn't mean it is fully developed or have the knowledge to do something! Next time you are getting ready to bench, throw 500 pounds on the bar and press it 10 times. Can't be done, huh? Why not? The muscle is there and functional. Right? That's because you haven't trained that muscle to do so!

Whatever.

I never called you or anyone else in this thread a dumb ass, or said someone's question was dumbass.

I don't really know why you can't understand my question. It's not that difficult. And to be quite honest, your "Just cause there is a brain..." comment makes no sense. In fact, you just answered your own question.

But, in the future, I'd appreciate a little more respect by not calling my questions/ comments- or anyone else's for that matter- dumb ass.

[bad14u]

Whatever.

I never called you or anyone else in this thread a dumb ass, or said someone's question was dumbass.

I don't really know why you can't understand my question. It's not that difficult. And to be quite honest, your "Just cause there is a brain..." comment makes no sense. In fact, you just answered your own question.

But, in the future, I'd appreciate a little more respect by not calling my questions/ comments- or anyone else's for that matter- dumb ass.

My apologies RS. Not my intent to say you were a dumbass. I will edit my previous post and I do have much respect for you. I have read many of your posts and know that you are a very bright young lady. I guess I was just blown away by a woman of your intellect asking why a fetus can't support itself outside of the womb. Again, I am sorry.

[spidey]

I'm really not trying to split hairs here, but I'm just throwing something else into the mix....so, Ok., if life begins at brain activity, then how come the baby couldn't sustain it's own life without the mother?

If a child is a human being once you determine brain activity, then how come the baby couldn't survive outside the womb?

Carry it a little farther. They can't survive on their own when they are born either. They are completely helpless and, without care, will die within hours. Are they still living human beings at birth? Think of it as a person on life support. Someone on a heart lung machine can't survive on their own either. Does that make them not human or not alive? Was Chris. Reed alive when he depended on a ventilater to breath? The baby depends on life support given by the mother while it's heart and lungs finish forming etc.

Consider that fetal dreams have been observed (confirmed by fetal brain scans). Fetal response to a womb invasion has been observed (late term of course). They REACT to something invading the womb by trying to get away from it. These are the responses of living things.

[redsquirrel]

Apology accepted.

Now, that I understand your question a little bit better, I will ellaborate. My whole point was, that once you can determine brain activity in a fetus, is it possible for it to survive outside the womb? Probably not...so that's why I made the comment. It wold have to remain inside the womb to survive. I raised the question simply to hear the responses for those that believe life begins at that point.

And my views on this may change once I do become a mother, but these are just questions I thought were pertininent.

[redsquirrel]

Consider that fetal dreams have been observed (confirmed by fetal brain scans). Fetal response to a womb invasion has been observed (late term of course). They REACT to something invading the womb by trying to get away from it. These are the responses of living things.

I agree with you 100% on this. I completely am against late term abortions for the reason you just mentioned.

[Puddles]

I think pretty much the same was as Spidey does on this whole subject.

When I was pregnant, I could feel my baby kicking and hiccoughing inside me, it was a live being although it could not survive on it's own. When I was a few weeks pregnant I had a sonogram and there I saw this little creature and saw her heart beating. Yes, she was alive and growing, even if she didn't quite look like a person yet.

Studies have proven that newborn babies also recognize their mothers voice.

Just because it can't survive on it's own does not mean that it isn't alive. Not just newborns, but all babies and young children need their parents or some one to care for them and to provide for them or they will die. A one year old child is not capable of surviving on it's own yet it is certainly alive.

The abortion issue is very personal and I doubt there will ever come a time when everyone agrees about what's right and wrong with it. The gov't. has to make laws about this stuff though because many people are too stupid to make reasonable decisions. I don't like the thought of any baby being aborted but I think there are times when it is for the best. At what point in time should it be allowed or disallowed? I think the issue relies more about what is humane than when life actually begins.

[redsquirrel]

I think the issue relies more about what is humane than when life actually begins.

I agree. Unfortunately, there is so much debate (as was proven in this thread, lol) about when life DOES actually begin that it's very difficult to determine when it is still humane to do it.

Then I hear on the radio this AM that a Univeristy of Missouri professor has been testing a contraception VACCINE!! Basically it has worked 100% in testing w/ pigs and now he's moving onto human testing. The way it works is it makes the sperm bounce off a female egg. This contraception would make it impossible for a woman EVER to get pregnant,though.

And of course opponents of the vaccined are worried that something like that would only encourage sexual activity with little or no concequences for their actions..

[spidey]

LOL, a vaccine. They make it sound like being pregnant is a disease.

My wife is nearly 8 months along with our second one. That boy is going to be a gymnast I think. He doesn't kick; he does handsprings! She is due Sept. 30.