Why Barry Bonds is Worth Cheering For...

[meat12]

that's true, there's a lot that's tainted, but when you have probably a whole lot of hitters using steroids, Bonds and McGwire really just stood out from the rest. In 1968 when the mound was higher, pitchers had a lower ERA and the highest batting average was .301. That year, Bob Gibson had a 1.12 ERA. Is it fair for that record to stand when today's pitchers don't have the benefit of a high mound like that? What about the smaller ballparks today, should today's pitchers have lower ERAs because they're giving up HRs in smaller parks?

the trick is, you have to reward those who dominate in their era, and this is the steroid era of baseball...for me, there already is an asterisk by Bonds' totals. But I also look at baseball's record book and see asterisks by almost all of the single season records.

the bottom line is, Aaron is entitled to say what he wants about Bonds, steroid use, and breaking the record, but IMO, it's almost impossible to fairly compare players across decades like that

well said :usausausa

[Mr I]

I


still


don't


like him

Let me leave you with another article, as a counterweight. This is from the Philadelphia Citypaper:

Bailing on Bonds
by Brian Hickey


When Major League Baseball Steroid King Barry Bonds hits town for his only visit of the season next Friday, there's a just-a-bit-outside chance he could pass Babe Ruth for second on the all-time home-run list before he leaves. This, readers, is the justification I opted to employ when a college friend called the other day asking if I could give his new book about Bonds a shout-out.

Now, I haven't read it cover-to-cover yet; it sat on the coffee table most of the weekend since I finally caved in and did some lawn work. But, from what I know of Jeff Pearlman—he was the boss of me at the University of Delaware Review back in the early '90s when we'd often get called to the dean of students' office for talkings-to— Love Me, Hate Me: Barry Bonds and the Making of an Antihero (HarperCollins) deserves the buzz that had him waiting to give his 40th radio interview of the past week when we caught up via cell phone Monday.

Some background for sports haters: Bonds, MLB's reigning slugger, passed the single-season record by slugging 73 homers a few seasons back. (A big deal.) This season, should his crumbling body hold up, he could make a run at Hank Aaron's all-time career record. (A very big deal.)

He's also a blatant cheater.

And a royal prick.

The latter two explain why I'm not surprised Pearlman, over the past two years, interviewed 524 people to write this comprehensive biography. If I learned one thing from Pearlman, it's to embrace controversy. (His 1999 Sports Illustrated story exposed Atlanta Braves relief pitcher John Rocker as a bumbling bigot.)

So, rather than hitting the standard steroid questions, I wanted to test the theory—which I believe—that Bonds juiced up so he could 1) break Mark McGwire's single-season record because it was held by a white man and 2) hit more career home runs than Ruth, because of the Babe's pigmentation.

Race, Pearlman found, is a big theme in Bonds' personal and professional development; Bonds watched his baseball-playing father (Bobby) and godfather (Willie Mays) sit on the receiving end of vile, racist taunts from fans. That, and being called "Blackberry" in the Caucasian-dominated schools he grew up attending, instilled a "mistrust in white authority."

Details like these explain why Bonds, whom I once respected for not taking any shit from anyone, would say the city of Boston is "too racist" for him to play in, and mistakenly maintain that cities don't "build stuff for blacks," meaning statues and monuments. Pearlman noted the irony that should Bonds top Aaron's 755 home runs, "he'll be breaking records by cheating when the guy he's topping, the one he says he respects, went through so much venom" on his way to legendary achievement.

As a white dude from the Jersey 'burbs, I don't know what it feels like on racism's receiving end. But I can say this: The discrimination chip on Bonds' shoulder is misplaced. If he's truly trying to stake an African-American claim atop the record book of America's pastime, cheating to top the pioneers who paved his way to fame is insulting.

That's not to say there isn't racism in sports. But as much as Bonds might expect it, it won't rear its ugly head if he heads to the Citizens Bank Park plate with a chance to relegate Ruth to third. When I got to thinking about Bonds, the Phillies' racist history and modern-day discrimination, I was watching soccer matches from Spain and England (instead of the Flyers' playoff game, since Comcast, in its finite wisdom, considers East Falls a neighborhood non grata.) It came as a shock when the commentator started talking about how teams at the World Cup in Germany this June could be penalized for their fans' racist behavior.

After the disgust subsided, I started wishing Barry was there. I wanted to say, "You think you got it bad? Try being a black player in Spain who tries to focus on the game while hearing, according to the BBC, 'monkey chants' spewed in his direction. Or the fan of an African World Cup qualifier who will receive a list of places in which they'd likely to be targeted for violence."

Of course, considering Bonds' apparent disdain for his fellow man, which Pearlman painstakingly details, he'd probably blow it off. But when the human growth hormones start taking a premature toll on his body, hopefully Bonds will realize people didn't hate him because he was black.

They hate him because he hates everybody … except himself.

http://www.citypaper.net/articles/20...llyblunt.shtml

Brain Hickey sounds like a miserable fuck to me with nothing better to do

[ROCKILLER]

^^^And on that note, if Barry was 'all steroids' like his critics like to insinuate, then why is he still able to crank a 450 foot blast now that he's being tested???

I was kinda wondering about his myself. Not just regarding bonds but gear in general. Say a guy is at or near his natural limit and he uses a couple cycles to put on 25 lbs. or 50 lbs. Will he be able to maintain this without gear, for how long? Also what about if he isnt at his natural limit when he starts and he uses gear to help himslef get to his limit. Will he be able to maintain that (I would assume yes on this) ? I know these are general questions and everybody is different but what is generally the rule?

[Mr I]

I was kinda wondering about his myself. Not just regarding bonds but gear in general. Say a guy is at or near his natural limit and he uses a couple cycles to put on 25 lbs. or 50 lbs. Will he be able to maintain this without gear, for how long? Also what about if he isnt at his natural limit when he starts and he uses gear to help himslef get to his limit. Will he be able to maintain that (I would assume yes on this) ? I know these are general questions and everybody is different but what is generally the rule?

Ultimately NO IMO

stuff that holds gains longest and in descending order is GH, Equipoise, Winnie, , IMO

[meat12]

They can't test for gh, he could still be on it.

[Lmg2701]

Barry Bonds is a piece of shit......His attitude is trash, he is trash, we all know at one point or another he used anabolics (and if you deny this you're a moron). For him to break Ruth or Aarons records for HR's is bullshit. Stick an asterisk by his name.


I could go on forever about this but he isn't worth my time.


P.S.-What type of piece of shit person won't sign a baseball, but will ask the person who caught it to sign a relase slip so the fan could be on Bonds' television show????

[bad14u]

I don't understand why they are palying the race card on this either! The man that holds the ultimate record is black, so why would he be saying that race plays a part of people not wanting him to break the record?

[meat12]

I don't understand why they are palying the race card on this either! The man that holds the ultimate record is black, so why would he be saying that race plays a part of people not wanting him to break the record?

That'll always happen, just the way this country is I guess. :thumbsdow

[go Yankees]

I don't understand why they are palying the race card on this either! The man that holds the ultimate record is black, so why would he be saying that race plays a part of people not wanting him to break the record?

from what I've read, Bonds is really racist, and he thinks people have something against him because he's black. Remember, his father and godfather -- Bobby Bonds and Willie Mays -- both came up playing in the Jim Crow South, and encountered a lot of "real" racism. Somehow, this has filtered through with Bonds, and he sees the world in this racialised way, EVEN THOUGH his first wife, ex-g/f, and best friend as a kid were all white

Lmg, I couldn't agree more, I hate his attitute

[babyblues]

Ever hear of a guy named Ty Cobb? Yeah, I thought you might have. He's only considered the best hitter that has ever played the game. No one disputes his accomplishments and that guy was notorious for being the biggest asshole on the planet. Granted, he didn't use anabolics, but he would do stuff like sharpen his cleats and try to spike people. He even went into the stands and beat the crap out of a guy who had taunted him during a game and the guy only had one hand. He spiked a pitcher SLIDING INTO FIRST BASE, because the guy had hit him with a pitch the previous at bat. Everyone disliked him...even his own teammates. But you don't see any asterisk after his name. *Note: Tyrus Raymond "Ty" Cobb was a complete jerk and all of his records and accomplishments should be evaluated in light of the fact that he was considered "the dirtiest player in baseball." The year that Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's HR record, he received death threats. He had bodyguards for pete's sake. If records in baseball are that important, people are more screwed up than I thought.

Barry Bonds may be a jackass, but that doesn't take away from the guy's talent. Put an asterisk next to his name, who cares, but don't deny that Barry Bonds is a great talent. If you deny that, you're a moron.

[bad14u]

Ever hear of a guy named Ty Cobb? Yeah, I thought you might have. He's only considered the best hitter that has ever played the game. No one disputes his accomplishments and that guy was notorious for being the biggest asshole on the planet. Granted, he didn't use anabolics, but he would do stuff like sharpen his cleats and try to spike people. He even went into the stands and beat the crap out of a guy who had taunted him during a game and the guy only had one hand. He spiked a pitcher SLIDING INTO FIRST BASE, because the guy had hit him with a pitch the previous at bat. Everyone disliked him...even his own teammates. But you don't see any asterisk after his name. *Note: Tyrus Raymond "Ty" Cobb was a complete jerk and all of his records and accomplishments should be evaluated in light of the fact that he was considered "the dirtiest player in baseball." .

Ty played dirty, but didn't cheat like Bonds did, and everything Ty did still goes on in the world of sports!

[go Yankees]

True, but it's gotten to the point with Cobb that his reputation precedes his accomplishments, and the same will certainly happen -- if it hasn't already -- with Bonds. And...there's the asterisk. Everyone has one, every record has one

[babyblues]

True, but it's gotten to the point with Cobb that his reputation precedes his accomplishments, and the same will certainly happen -- if it hasn't already -- with Bonds. And...there's the asterisk. Everyone has one, every record has one

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[meat12]

I thought this article was pretty good. But as for myself I'm at my ends with the whole issue. Who knows what the resolve will be, I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I know where I stand about it, and thats good enough for me.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5560026

Root for Bonds? Are you kidding me?


Cheer for Barry Bonds?

What's next? Beg for a nuclear reactor in your backyard? Tell the doc, "Please, do another prostate exam," just for kicks?
The other side ...


Why Bonds is worth cheering for

Also...


Bonds still has his defenders. If he saw them on the street, he would probably blow them off, because that is standard operating procedure for Barry Bonds. But that isn't even the point.

Bonds is chasing a record he has no business chasing, because he almost certainly cheated to get it. Now, "cheated" may seem like too strong a word, since Major League Baseball had no drug testing until recently and Bonds has never failed a test. But even if Bonds didn't technically cheat, didn't he cheat the game? And since human-growth hormone still isn't on the banned-substances list, how can we reasonably believe Bonds is suddenly clean?

Root against Bonds. The damage of the Steroid Era cannot be undone (and it is naive to think the era is over). But that doesn't mean you have to approve of the era.

Fans boo athletes for playing poorly, griping about contracts and not trying hard. So why not boo Bonds?

Bonds won't see it this way, of course. In the twisted mind inside his ever-expanding head, he seems to think he is a victim of some vast media conspiracy. Bonds' persecution act is offensive when placed in the context of the man he is chasing.

No, not Babe Ruth. Hank Aaron.

When Aaron was chasing Ruth, he received a horrible flood of death threats and racist mail — far, far greater than anything Bonds has faced. He had reason to believe his life might be in danger. Aaron continued his pursuit with dignity and class, even bravery. He has been one of the great ambassadors of the game. (And strangely, considering he owns the most hallowed record in all of sports, Aaron is underrated as a player. Check his stats against Willie Mays'. Aaron measures up in every way.)

Bonds was the best player of his generation before he was ever accused of taking anything. But that was more than 200 home runs ago.

I can think of only five reasons to cheer for Barry Bonds:


You are related to him.

You have wagered on him.

You have a relative who wagered on him.

You are so tired of athletes mixed up with drugs, thugs, agents, self-indulgence and indifference that you have decided to block all of that out and concentrate only on what you see on the field.

You think it is horrible and racist that Mark McGwire was feted like a war hero in 1998, when he was apparently doping, while Bonds has been treated like a war criminal.
I understand that last sentiment. It certainly looks like racism — and for some people, that's surely a factor. But let's examine this more closely:

In 1998, there was barely a whisper about McGwire and steroids. In retrospect, it looks like we all had our heads in the sand. But remember this: Sammy Sosa was just as deified as McGwire that season. It wasn't a white-guy deal or a Latino-guy deal. It was a home-run deal — and a naivete deal.

If McGwire tried to make a comeback next week, he would be absolutely pilloried in the press. Fans would boo mightily. And there is way more evidence that Bonds used performance-enhancers than that McGwire did (though I would not begin to defend either of them).

And to the list of reasons to cheer for Bonds, I suppose I should add one more:


6. "Everybody is doing it and steroids can't make you hit a baseball and just leave him alone, dammit!"
OK. First of all, I'm not above using the "everybody is doing it" defense. (I whipped it out myself after last week's "No way the Texans will take Mario Williams" column.) But just because other players presumably took steroids and baseball's testing policy has been a joke does not make it OK.

As for "steroids can't make you hit a baseball" ... well, that's true. It's also true that a trampoline can't make you dunk. This is about unfair assistance.

Nobody ever said steroids can create a major-league superstar. Performance-enhancers obviously can help a good player become great. Ken Caminiti said so. Jose Canseco said he might not have made the major leagues at all without the help of steroids, and for a stretch, he was arguably the best player in the world.

If Bonds truly never used the cream, the clear or any other drug, he should be suing everybody in sight. But he isn't. It has become almost impossible to believe that he never took anything. And it is silly to say that performance-enhancers don't help.

Cheer against Barry Bonds. Cheer against the era he represents. Cheer for baseball to get a more aggressive testing policy. And cheer for the game to return to the drug-free players and its fans, where it belongs.

[go Yankees]

:bravonew: