Virginia Tech Shooting

[SonofBone]

Not trying to get everybody here in a uproar, but a gun is just an instrument. Guns have been around forever and they've just started being used this way in the past 20 years.

My opinion, but if guns are taken away, the criminals will still have them. I like for criminals to think that any person could have a gun. If criminals think that every household is without a gun, then there will be a lot more robberies, vandalism, & breaking and entering.

This guy could've detonated a bomb, spilled chlorine gas in a classroom or started stabbing people. A gun isn't the only choice.

I don't know all the answers, but I think the root of the issues should be addressed...stuff like having a mom & dad around & being off the street at a decent hour growing up.

[hitmansb]

Here's what really pisses me off about this: there are reports that this guy was showing red flags galore, acting in a very odd antisocial manner and writing some very violent fiction for one of his classes. Apparently, the prof even talked to someone in the administration about this kid...that's how concerned she was...and was told to forget it because it'd be difficult to do anything about it because of all the regulations/legalities.

If a professor thinks a kid might be a nutcase, it shouldn't be hard to enact a chain of events that would force the student to go for a psych evaluation. Make it a condition of enrollment, and it wouldn't be an issue legally anymore: submit to the evaulation, or be expelled...simple as that. In almost every case like this, it's later discovered that there were a ton of 'red flags' about the shooter that were never followed up. Schools should be OBLIGATED, and I mean from elementary school right on up, to have kids that show warning signs checked out.

[mindstar]

Son of Bone, without getting in an uproar, there are plenty of places in the world where 'only the criminals have guns' and they don't have nearly the rate of violent crime that the US has.

[Shibby]

Here's what really pisses me off about this: there are reports that this guy was showing red flags galore, acting in a very odd antisocial manner and writing some very violent fiction for one of his classes. Apparently, the prof even talked to someone in the administration about this kid...that's how concerned she was...and was told to forget it because it'd be difficult to do anything about it because of all the regulations/legalities.

If a professor thinks a kid might be a nutcase, it shouldn't be hard to enact a chain of events that would force the student to go for a psych evaluation. Make it a condition of enrollment, and it wouldn't be an issue legally anymore: submit to the evaulation, or be expelled...simple as that. In almost every case like this, it's later discovered that there were a ton of 'red flags' about the shooter that were never followed up. Schools should be OBLIGATED, and I mean from elementary school right on up, to have kids that show warning signs checked out.

Schools are just business's to the administration. There was an incident (non-violent) at my last school where a student accused a teacher of taking advantage of her. Well to make a long story short, the girls story kept changing and the "witness" of hers even said she was making shit up. The school just simply fired the teacher because they didn't want it to become a big scene. They didn't want to mess up there image, especially since the county is already allegedly corrupt. No one can fight the higher up powers since everyone that seems to be able to do anything about it, is in on the corruption. So it doesn't surprise me that the school tried to keep the first shooting and the behavior of this student quite. They didn't want to give people a reason to talk and reduce enrollment. I'm sure public figures like Marcus Vick and his attitude problems were already creating image problems for VT. So VT was basically more worried about playing PR games than the safety of the students.

[FitnessBrat]

I don't even think the issue was even thought out as far as PR - they knew he was weird but he was an adult and an English major - legally he wasn't doing anything wrong...

[babyblues]

Here's what really pisses me off about this: there are reports that this guy was showing red flags galore, acting in a very odd antisocial manner and writing some very violent fiction for one of his classes. Apparently, the prof even talked to someone in the administration about this kid...that's how concerned she was...and was told to forget it because it'd be difficult to do anything about it because of all the regulations/legalities.

Yeah, I saw that too. They said he wasn't doing anything wrong so they weren't going to do anything about it. Well, he's done something wrong now, hasn't he?

They interviewed students in one of the classrooms that barracaded their door so he wasn't able to come in. None of them were killed, but they saw him walking down the hall toward their classroom and one of the girls said that he was walking slowly and there was no expression on his face at all. That and the fact that he waited for a month before he purchased another pistol would suggest that this was planned for some time. He knew what he was doing and he had thought it out. He even left a note.

You know what is really upsetting about this? Every single time something like this happens, people come out of the woodwork saying that they saw signs yet nothing was done about it. But what can be done about it? If they had forced the guy to undergo a psych evaluation and then expelled him, how do we know that he wouldn't have come back at some point and done the same thing? I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think that people who show signs like that should be serve a mandatory 8 years in the military. That would actually give them the structure and discipline that just might straighten them out.

[Shibby]

I don't even think the issue was even thought out as far as PR - they knew he was weird but he was an adult and an English major - legally he wasn't doing anything wrong...

I'm talking about the PR as far as not saying anything about the first shooting until the second shooting.

[Bouncer]

Developing Story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

[beefcake]

Last time I checked, the first amendment gave us the right to freedom of expression. I don't think it would be right to where things you write could make you succeptible to having to undergo a psych eval. I mean look at some of the authors out there like stephen king who are total nut jobs. Can't really blame the school for that. I think everyone just wants someone to blame right now, and the guy who is to blame is dead, so there's no one to punish.

[Shibby]

Developing Story.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

Damn, I swear this country is just becoming a face of what was. Everything is so much about the bottom line, people can do anything.

[babyblues]

Last time I checked, the first amendment gave us the right to freedom of expression. I don't think it would be right to where things you write could make you succeptible to having to undergo a psych eval. I mean look at some of the authors out there like stephen king who are total nut jobs. Can't really blame the school for that. I think everyone just wants someone to blame right now, and the guy who is to blame is dead, so there's no one to punish.

Well, since we don't have access to his writings we have no basis of comparison. But, there is a difference between people who write the kind of stuff Stephen King writes and stuff that makes people concerned. And the first amendment does not give us the freedom to express any and everything we want. There are limits. Especially when expressing something that could be a sign of something else much more horrible in the future.

[Turbo3000]

I wish this fucker wouldn't have taken his own life and he would have gotten what he really deserved. My heart and prayers go out to everyone involved in this, those who died, students involved, families involved, and all the student and people around the country affected by this. Just graduating not long ago, I can't imagine how I would've felt of been affected by something like this. The psychological battle these students will have to face will be extremely difficult. I don't know if I would even feel safe going to class after something like this or at least I'd be worried about it.

May God help all those affected by this and bring some kind of comfort to them all. And I agree, it should not be easy for someone to get a gun and the fact that someone not from this country can just buy a gun/no questions asked, well I feel real safe will all the terrorists around the world who could turn the U.S. into Iraq with random shootings whenever they would feel like it. Something has to change!

Taking his own life is a blessing...what would he have gotten? He would have ended up a mess in the judicial system, wasting time and money everyday, he would sit around for a couple of years and then go to trail, by that time it would have cost thousands of dollars just to get him to trail, and then he would be sentenced to jail. So, then he would spend years and years in jail, eating 3 meals a day and getting to live, while all the taxpayers of Virginia payed for it. Are you kidding me? Best thing he did was kill himself, the judicial system is fucked.

Check out the mess of the Nichols trail in Atlanta, the court room shooter, costing us tons of money and the mother fucker should just be killed.

[coffee-guy]

Well, since we don't have access to his writings we have no basis of comparison. But, there is a difference between people who write the kind of stuff Stephen King writes and stuff that makes people concerned. And the first amendment does not give us the freedom to express any and everything we want. There are limits. Especially when expressing something that could be a sign of something else much more horrible in the future.

There are times I wonder if you aren't trying to get society to vote AGAINST the first amendment just to get you to shut up :D...

[bonebreaker]

Gun laws need to change. Needs to be much harder to get a gun. This guy bought the guns and ammo just a few days ago without any hassle.

There are plenty of gun laws on the books now that would have prevented this had all the necessary agencies had put all the available information on this nut in the FBI's federal database used for instant check on gun purchases. His mental records were available at the state level, but nobody took the time to put them in the Fed's database where they would have done the most good. Gun laws, present and anything in the future, are nothing but jokes anyway. If you were to totally BAN all guns in the U.S., only law abiding citizens and non lunatic people will abide by them. Which means the only people who will have guns ARE the criminals and nuts. Criminals and those who really want them WILL get a gun one way or the other. That makes the law abiding citizens easier targets. Listen, cocaine, heroin, pot and many other drugs ARE illegal, but that doesn't stop anyone from getting their hands on them. Guns are the same way. Making tougher laws won't make a bit of difference.

In the '50's, 60's and '70's and even before then, guns were much easier to get and very cheap---NO GUN LAWS, except very elemental purchasing procedures on hand guns....in most states. Hell, you used to go to Sear's and buy a gun. Practically any hardware store had rifles, shotguns AND hand guns. Walk in, plop down your coins and walk out. YOU NEVER HAD ANY KIND OF MASS KILLINGS THEN AS WE HAVE HAD IN THE LAST 15-20- YEARS!!! Why is that? It's not gun laws that should change, it's "people laws". Use a gun in a robbery---DEATH PENALTY!! Attack someone using a gun----DEATH PENALTY!!! Shoot someone other than self-defense---DEATH PENALTY!!!

Get rid of all desensitizing violent video games. Bring back corporal punishment in schools. If a kid continues to be a dick-head in school, permenantly kick them out forever, OR, put them AND their parents in jail together for a while. Stop glorifying criminal athletes and musicians. BAN ALL RAP MUSIC WITH A CRIMINAL OR SLANDEROUS NATURE. Our culture is rotten to the core because of poor parenting....99%. Kids grow up with heroes who are really zeros. If more parents did more ass kicking instead of defending their little brats for everything, things would change. Make the parent responsible for little Dick and Jane. Whatever their little brats do that is illegal, put them all in front of a judge who will mete out proper punishment.

Gun control is NOT the answer. Changing our really f'd up society is. BB