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Austrian Group Wants Chimpanzee Granted Basic Rights

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  • Austrian Group Wants Chimpanzee Granted Basic Rights

    Wow......just....wow. I don't even know what to say to preface this. It's so absurd it defies logic on any level. I'm all for preserving animal life and fulfilling our responsibility as their guardians, but granting them legal rights and defining them as a "person"!? That's insulting to the human race.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,270078,00.html

    VIENNA, Austria — In some ways, Hiasl is like any other Viennese: He indulges a weakness for pastry, likes to paint and enjoys chilling out by watching TV.

    But he doesn't care for coffee, and he isn't actually a person — at least not yet.

    In a closely watched test case that could set a global legal precedent for granting basic rights to apes, Austrian animal rights advocates are waging an unusual court battle to get the 26-year-old male chimpanzee legally declared a "person."

    Hiasl's supporters argue that he needs that status to become a legal entity who can receive donations and get a guardian to look out for his interests.

    "Our main argument is that Hiasl is a person and has basic legal rights," said Eberhart Theuer, a lawyer leading the challenge on behalf of the Association Against Animal Factories, a Vienna animal rights group.

    "We mean the right to life, the right to not be tortured, the right to freedom under certain conditions," Theuer said.

    "We're not talking about the right to vote here."

    The campaign was launched earlier this year after the animal sanctuary where Hiasl (pronounced HEE-zul) and another chimp, Rosi, have lived for the past 25 years went bankrupt.

    Activists want to ensure the two apes don't wind up homeless if the shelter closes. Both have already suffered trauma: They were captured as babies in Sierra Leone in 1982 and smuggled in a crate to Austria for use in experiments at a pharmaceutical research laboratory. Customs officers intercepted the shipment and turned the chimps over to the shelter.

    Their food and veterinary bills run about US$6,800 a month. Donors have offered to help, but there's a catch: Under Austrian law, only a person can receive personal donations.

    Organizers could set up a foundation to collect cash for Hiasl, whose life expectancy in captivity is about 60 years. But without basic rights, they contend, he still could be sold to someone outside Austria, where he's now protected by strict animal cruelty laws.

    "If we can get Hiasl declared a person, he would have the right to own property. Then, if people wanted to donate something to him, he'd have the right to receive it," said Theuer, who has vowed if necessary to take the case to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, France.

    Austria isn't the only country where primate rights are being debated. Spain's parliament is considering a bill that would endorse the Great Ape Project, a Seattle-based international initiative to extend "fundamental moral and legal protections" to apes.

    If Hiasl gets a guardian, "it will be the first time the species barrier will have been crossed for legal 'personhood,"' said Jan Creamer, chief executive of Animal Defenders International, which is working to end the use of primates in research.

    Paula Stibbe, a Briton who teaches English in Vienna, petitioned a district court to be Hiasl's legal trustee. On April 24, Judge Barbara Bart rejected her request, ruling that Hiasl didn't meet the two key tests: He is neither mentally impaired nor in an emergency.

    Although Bart expressed concern that awarding Hiasl a guardian could create the impression that animals essentially enjoy the same legal status as humans, she didn't rule that he could never be considered a person.

    Martin Balluch, a scientist who heads the Association Against Animal Factories, since has asked a federal court for a ruling on the guardianship issue.

    "Chimps share 99.4 percent of their DNA with humans," he said. "OK, they're not homo sapiens. But they're obviously also not things — the only other option the law provides."

    Not all Austrian animal rights activists back the legal challenge. Michael Antolini, president of the local Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, said he thinks it's absurd.

    "I'm not about to make myself look like a fool" by getting involved, said Antolini, who worries that chimpanzees eventually could gain broader rights, such as copyright protections on their photographs.

    But Stibbe, who brings Hiasl sweets and yogurt and watches him draw, paint and clown around by dressing up in knee-high rubber Wellington boots, insists he deserves more legal rights "than bricks or apples or potatoes."

    "He can be very playful but also thoughtful," she said. "Being with him is like playing with someone who can't talk."

    A date for the appeal hasn't yet been set, but Hiasl's legal team already has lined up several expert witnesses. Theuer said they include Jane Goodall, the world's foremost observer of chimpanzee behavior, who revolutionized research on primates during the 1960s when she studied them at close range in Tanzania.

    "When you see Hiasl, he really comes across as a person," Theuer said.

    "He has a real personality. It strikes you immediately: This is an individual. You just have to look him in the eye to see that."

  • #2
    Originally posted by babyblues
    That's insulting to the human race.
    "
    Why? Because we are so much better then other living beings on this planet... :thumbsdow

    We are no better then any other creature on this planet. All living things deserve to be treated equally.
    Last edited by Bouncer; 05-07-07, 09:26 AM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
      Why? Because we are so much better then other living beings on this planet... :thumbsdow

      We are no better then any other creature on this planet. All living things deserve to be treated equally.
      If you really believe this, kill yourself. After all, what would it matter. You're no better than a any other living creature on this planet, right? WRONG!? You're a whole lot fucking better than any million animals put together, Bouncer. If we're no better than why would the opinion of any judicial branch of any government be worth a damn?

      Treated equally!? In what way? I guess you're right. All living things deserved to be manipulated for money. That is what this is all about isn't it? They need to make it legal to accept donations and appoint someone as its guardian. But wait....we're no better so why would he need a guardian, a human guardian no less? Why not just put it back where it was taken from and let it take care of itself? Is it not "cruel" to keep it from it's own kind?

      So explain to me why you don't see any apes posting anything on this board? Why don't you see any apes inventing anything to improve life on this planet? Why don't you see any apes writing books or donating their time at the local soup kitchen? Huh? Explain that to me. If "all living things deserve to be treated equally" than why do we allow animals to kill each other and not punish the killers as murderers? Why do we allow animals to devour their own young? Why don't we put bears and sharks on trial for attacking and/or killing human "people"? What if this ape attacked and killed one of it's guardians? And that has happened before. Would you be willing to convict it of murder and sentence it to a life in prison? What about chickens? If we're no better than we're all canibals for eating them. Just a bit hypocritical.

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      • #4
        I take B's side :)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by babyblues
          If you really believe this, kill yourself. After all, what would it matter. You're no better than a any other living creature on this planet, right? WRONG!? You're a whole lot fucking better than any million animals put together, Bouncer. If we're no better than why would the opinion of any judicial branch of any government be worth a damn?

          Treated equally!? In what way? I guess you're right. All living things deserved to be manipulated for money. That is what this is all about isn't it? They need to make it legal to accept donations and appoint someone as its guardian. But wait....we're no better so why would he need a guardian, a human guardian no less? Why not just put it back where it was taken from and let it take care of itself? Is it not "cruel" to keep it from it's own kind?

          So explain to me why you don't see any apes posting anything on this board? Why don't you see any apes inventing anything to improve life on this planet? Why don't you see any apes writing books or donating their time at the local soup kitchen? Huh? Explain that to me. If "all living things deserve to be treated equally" than why do we allow animals to kill each other and not punish the killers as murderers? Why do we allow animals to devour their own young? Why don't we put bears and sharks on trial for attacking and/or killing human "people"? What if this ape attacked and killed one of it's guardians? And that has happened before. Would you be willing to convict it of murder and sentence it to a life in prison? What about chickens? If we're no better than we're all canibals for eating them. Just a bit hypocritical.
          Dude, you are so far out in left field that it isn't even funny. Truly bro, your rant sounds border line psychotic. You ask why apes don't invent things to improve the planet. They don't do anything to harm the planet either. Humans are by far the most destructive living thing that has ever lived on this planet. You talk about writing books, posting on forums, and donating time at the soup kitchen. You really think any of that crap makes a human better? Fucking whales can swim half way around the world to a precise destination without any map or navigation. Can you do that?

          Seriously, I don't even know where to begin with your stupid ass rant.

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          • #6
            by the way babyblues, you read into everything a bit to much. when i say they should be treated equally. i mean if someone kills a dog for example, i believe they should be punished with the same sentence as if they had killed a human.

            lets take the article you posted out of this for a sec. let me ask you a question. do you feel superior when you walk by or see an animal? do you look at them and think to yourself, "i am far superior to that stupid animal"? Do you feel that you can learn nothing from other creatures because you are so much better? this is my point. not so much what the article you posted has to say, just about how humans view the world and things in it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
              if someone kills a dog for example, i believe they should be punished with the same sentence as if they had killed a human.
              sorry to butt in, do you really believe this? how about cats..... :hmmm:

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              • #8
                Originally posted by caged
                sorry to butt in, do you really believe this? how about cats..... :hmmm:
                ya, i sure do believe it. i guess you feel that you are better or "higher up" then a dog?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
                  ya, i sure do believe it. i guess you feel that you are better or "higher up" then a dog?
                  well i guess..if you think i feel that way. but gettin a life sentence come on now.

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                  • #10
                    but of course if someone was shooting at one of my pits, id be shooting back. without thinkin twice!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by caged
                      but gettin a life sentence come on now.
                      ok, so if someone beat your dog to death withe a baseball bat or a hammer for no reason, would you say, "ahh, its only a dog". if you ask me, a person that does that deserves life in prison. am i the only one here that thinks this way?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
                        Dude, you are so far out in left field that it isn't even funny. Truly bro, your rant sounds border line psychotic. You ask why apes don't invent things to improve the planet. They don't do anything to harm the planet either. Humans are by far the most destructive living thing that has ever lived on this planet. You talk about writing books, posting on forums, and donating time at the soup kitchen. You really think any of that crap makes a human better? Fucking whales can swim half way around the world to a precise destination without any map or navigation. Can you do that?

                        Seriously, I don't even know where to begin with your stupid ass rant.
                        Again, if you truly feel like humans are the most destructive creatures, than the best thing you could do, is to eliminate yourself and stop contributing to the destruction of this planet.

                        Yes, I do think that humans are superior to animals. There are many many animals that have far greater physical strength and speed and abilities that humans don't naturally have. But there is nothing that animals can do that a human can't compensate for with its creativity and imagination. The difference is that humans have figured out how to do what they don't have the natural ability to do. Take whales for example. Actually whales do use navigation. Whales use the earth's magnetic field to navigate just like any human would with a compass. Do you think they understand the science of that? Humans do. That's how we're able to do the same thing. Sure, we need the aid of a map and a compass, but the point is that we can figure out how to accomplish something that is greater than the scope of our natural ability.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
                          ok, so if someone beat your dog to death withe a baseball bat or a hammer for no reason...
                          That's a pretty extreme example and those people are fucked up to begin with. That's not indicative of the entire human race.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by babyblues
                            Again, if you truly feel like humans are the most destructive creatures, than the best thing you could do, is to eliminate yourself and stop contributing to the destruction of this planet.
                            Or I could eliminate you or people like you.. Same difference. :)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by babyblues
                              That's a pretty extreme example and those people are fucked up to begin with. That's not indicative of the entire human race.
                              Not the point. The point is, hurting an animal should be looked at the same as hurting a human.

                              I would much rather hurt you than any animal. :)

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