The economy

[alwaysgrowing]

I just don't understand how these CEO's have been pulling down millions for years as this all built up. NOw many are set to recieve golden send off packages to go away

[redsquirrel]

I just don't understand how these CEO's have been pulling down millions for years as this all built up. NOw many are set to recieve golden send off packages to go away

They were able to adapt a laissez faire attitude; especially since W. allowed the "free markets" approach to Wall Street. There was no regulation from the government, so they could cheat shareholders, yet take home millions. I don't agree with it whatsoever.

Call your state representative and tell them that if they vote for this package as is, w/ the big CEO sendoffs that they won't be re-elected. That's exactly why the bailout bill hasn't been agreed upon yet. Senators and State Reps are getting flooded with calls from their constituents telling them they will not be re-elected if they allow us, the taxpayers to 1) have to pay for their mishandling of investments and securities, and 2) allow them to walk away w/ huge bonuses.

[NYCmitch25]

Wow, I don't think you realize the pompousness in this post. Most people don't choose to live paycheck to paycheck. Buying a home isn't just about trying to live up to some American standard. People want nice families and decent place to build their lives. If you have kids, which it is very obvious you know nothing about, trying to move to a better neighborhood means better schools and a better environment for the kids to grow up in. Also when you own a house you are making an investment instead of just loosing money. I thought you of all people here would realize that.

bs, i agree with him. ppl have way more shit then they need and live way above there means. just b/c you want a bigger SUV, sports car, larger home, better school district etc. doesnt mean you can afford it or you need it. lets face it poor ppl have cell phones and nikey sneakers. go to St. Lucia or Jamica and you'll see what poor is.

[Shibby]

bs, i agree with him. ppl have way more shit then they need and live way above there means. just b/c you want a bigger SUV, sports car, larger home, better school district etc. doesnt mean you can afford it or you need it. lets face it poor ppl have cell phones and nikey sneakers. go to St. Lucia or Jamica and you'll see what poor is.

That's just stupid. You can go to many other countries and see how lower level it is materialistically and overall. It is a fact that better neighborhoods provide better education and less need for negative influence to survive. Yes people go way beyond their means and it is their fault, when it is not a life necessity. A shelter is. The location of that shelter does make a difference. Just the words "inner city" and "suburb" give an extremely different impression just saying them.

[NewbieChris]

That is what it appears to be on the surface I agree. But, that is not the root cause. Will Shakespeare knew the answer and I agree with him "kill all the lawyers" and kill them tonight. That would take out 2/3 of congress right there.

I deal with real situations?!?

[NewbieChris]

Wow, I don't think you realize the pompousness in this post. Most people don't choose to live paycheck to paycheck. Buying a home isn't just about trying to live up to some American standard. People want nice families and decent place to build their lives. If you have kids, which it is very obvious you know nothing about, trying to move to a better neighborhood means better schools and a better environment for the kids to grow up in. Also when you own a house you are making an investment instead of just loosing money. I thought you of all people here would realize that.

Living pay check to pay check is stupid, I'm sorry. If you are telling me that you bring home, lets just say 5k/month, and you can't find somehow to save 1/5 of that for emergencies, that is stupidity. I am sorry if that belief offends you. If a person signs into a mortgage he or she know nothing about, that is stupid. Wanting better things for your children is one thing, but over-extending yourself and not saving a dime is stupidity. Shit happens in life, and eventually you may not have that income any longer. Why wouldn't you want a safety net? Renting may not be the most efficient way to spend your money, but if you have the ability to save that is much more important.


Owning a home is not an investment, it is in reality a cost. You don't see any real gains in capital until you turn over the investment 20+ years from now(given you have a 20yr mortgage). Then, to see a better return than what you paid for the investment you have to get 2x what you paid for it, plus all maintenance cost. Which would be your total cost of capital.


I am NOT saying Americans should not buy a house. I am saying that we want too big of a house when we go shopping. It is a problem with Americas mentality, really. Think about it. Wanting better for your children in this country, is NOT wanting them to get an education. It is wanted them to get a 'better' education. I got the 'better' education during my primary schooling and to be quite honest, it wasn't worth it. I had friends in public schools that learned what I learned. I have a cousin who grew up in western MD and her mother would call my mother and ask what I was learning. My cousin was learning the same thing in her school.


The end all be all of what I am saying is that, in reality, if an American makes the choice to take out a loan for something that stretches his or her limits, it is not my responsibility to save him or her.

[NewbieChris]

1) This problem is not solely the cause of bad mortgage debt. That's part ofit, but definitely not ALL. The problem right now is the liquidity BETWEEN the banks themselves, not consumers necessarily. The risk is NOT that banks don't want to lend to the consumer- they don't want to lend to each other.

2) Before you go blaming this 100% on people who couldn't pay their mortgages because they live paycheck to paycheck, rethink your position. Those people were advised what their payment could be when they took the loan. Those people were also advised of what the lender was "stating" their income to be.

There are so many layers to this thing, you really need to do your research to fully understand this. While the bad assets the banks are holding contribute to this problem, the high energy prices, high grocery costs, and most importantly- the falling dollar, is has even more influence.

I would say the speculative short selling has been a route cause. I am not saying that the crisis begins and ends with mortgage lending. The real problem as I see it is the dishonesty that we faced. The deregulation of the Regan era is also to blame. The reason that banks are so reluctant to lend to each other is the sour milk of MBS. The dollar was not falling a month ago, it was gaining. Oil prices were dropping and thus energy costs were falling. Then we hit the bump in the road that shattered consumer confidence.

There is a world wide credit crunch that will resolve itself without a 700 billion dollar bailout. This countries problems are it own. We live in debt and with that debt and mentality our biggest issue IS the MSB loan crisis that started the credit crunch a year ago.

[Shibby]

Living pay check to pay check is stupid, I'm sorry. If you are telling me that you bring home, lets just say 5k/month, and you can't find somehow to save 1/5 of that for emergencies, that is stupidity.

You live with your parents. Enough said.

[NewbieChris]

You live with your parents. Enough said.

Um, okay? You can throw that around all you want, but that doesn't make me wrong. Sure, I could go out, get an apartment. Buy a nice car and do everything I ever wanted to do. I wouldn't be saving a hefty sum of money so that I could buy a house in 2 years and have an affordable mortgage.

I am not saying everyone is so fortunate, but because people don't think about simple things, like SAVING money, I and 5% of the country have to come in swooping to the rescue and pay to support the country. Talk about unfair.

Its alright, in 10 years when we are all giving the government 60% of our income so that they can redistribute it to use after poor management and great dead weight loss, you can be satisfied by the fact that YOU lived on your own and never had help from anyone. And little ole' me lived at home for a few years after college...

[caged]

youll be living at home till your 40 anyway.:)

[Shibby]

Um, okay? You can throw that around all you want, but that doesn't make me wrong. Sure, I could go out, get an apartment. Buy a nice car and do everything I ever wanted to do. I wouldn't be saving a hefty sum of money so that I could buy a house in 2 years and have an affordable mortgage.

I am not saying everyone is so fortunate, but because people don't think about simple things, like SAVING money, I and 5% of the country have to come in swooping to the rescue and pay to support the country. Talk about unfair.

Its alright, in 10 years when we are all giving the government 60% of our income so that they can redistribute it to use after poor management and great dead weight loss, you can be satisfied by the fact that YOU lived on your own and never had help from anyone. And little ole' me lived at home for a few years after college...

You are completely out of touch with how real life intervenes and beyond most people best intentions they struggle. You make it sound like people plan to live paycheck to paycheck. Lets talk about me for example. We only have one income right now. Why? Well both my wife and I were in college (this is where we met) working the "plan". My wife and I find out we are having a baby. So what did I do? Well in your eyes I am sure it's stupid, but I stopped going to school and started working full time. This allowed my wife to continue her scholarship in hopes that it makes a better future for our family. She graduated in July but doesn't have a job. We thought she would have work papers by now but doesn't. Still working on that. Now there are some people that didn't plan well enough, but it's all about risk versus reward. There are plenty of ways life intervenes for everyone and you do what you have to. Your immaturity and your inexperience of life really shows through in this thread.

[Shibby]

Another example of how no matter how much you plan, some things just happen. We all know RS got promoted, got fired, has another job and is now expecting a baby. Now all indications she didn't have to live paycheck to paycheck, but there are plenty of people who tried to have a safety net but things just snowballed and they didn't rebound in time or at all.

[NYCmitch25]

Shibby im not sure why you have to insult him to make your point.

Chris its not easy for anyone to save up that kind of money. Salaries dont compensate ppl to have that luxury to do it. I agree with you fundementally but I think what shibby is refering to is the "grey area" shit happens you can only prepare so an extent. there are always exceptions to the rule. i think its harsh and ignorant to say your stupid for etc etc. I also agree that you are inexperineced but you are intelligent with good finiacial sense.

[Shibby]

I don't see that I am insulting him. I am pointing out that he looks at how everything is suppose to be on paper but lacks the experience in the real world. This is keeping him from seeing or listening to how real life doesn't follow what you put on paper. I will give him the fact that others shouldn't bail out the people who take a risk and fail. But to insinuate that people are stupid for living paycheck to paycheck, as if it was a choice, is way off and that's where his immaturity for judging people for their status in life shows.

[alwaysgrowing]

So i just read that Washing Mutual's CEO is set up to take a 13mil severance package for only a few months of work. I neeed that job