Who here is a homophobe?

[Shibby]

I don't support gay marriage at all, but I'm not a homophobe -

Just so we are clear, is it marriage that you don't support or do you feel they shouldn't have any rights that a married couple has? Also why shouldn't they adopt kids?

[NewbieChris]

I just don't support gay marriage - and gay people adopting kids.

Well, I think thats fucked up and certainly can't respect that mindset. It does make you somewhat of a bigot with a prejudice. I don't know if you knew someone who had a bad experience or something like that, but I think its a real shame that you feel that way.

[the art of war]

Just so we are clear, is it marriage that you don't support or do you feel they shouldn't have any rights that a married couple has? Also why shouldn't they adopt kids?

Marriage isn't clearly defined but my view on it is a man and woman. That's just how I am. There a ton of reasons for not being able to adopt kids but the main one is what it does to the kids. Life is plenty hard enough without having to deal with that growing up. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, that's not up to me to decide. It's not a moral deal for me, it's what I've seen happen to kids because of it.

[the art of war]

Well, I think thats fucked up and certainly can't respect that mindset. It does make you somewhat of a bigot with a prejudice. I don't know if you knew someone who had a bad experience or something like that, but I think its a real shame that you feel that way.

maybe so bro , but I'm not about to change who I am in that area. I've had it shoved down my face for years and I just don't agree with it - we all have our differences.

[Shibby]

Marriage isn't clearly defined but my view on it is a man and woman. That's just how I am. There a ton of reasons for not being able to adopt kids but the main one is what it does to the kids. Life is plenty hard enough without having to deal with that growing up. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, that's not up to me to decide. It's not a moral deal for me, it's what I've seen happen to kids because of it.

So it's the "marriage" you don't support but a civil union would be ok?

The kids you know raised by a gay person(s). Where they adopted or did a parent change their lifestyle to a gay one?

[the art of war]

So it's the "marriage" you don't support but a civil union would be ok?

The kids you know raised by a gay person(s). Where they adopted or did a parent change their lifestyle to a gay one?

I'd support a civil union, I have no problems with that at all. I've known two kids who were adopted, never known somebody who was born from a surrogate. I don't like either situation in this world for the kid frankly.

[NewbieChris]

I'd support a civil union, I have no problems with that at all. I've known two kids who were adopted, never known somebody who was born from a surrogate. I don't like either situation in this world for the kid frankly.

I think the man question there was, did it effect their lives in a negative way? Life isn't easy when people judge you period. So, maybe you could help the situation by being less judgmental.

[NewbieChris]

I'd support a civil union, I have no problems with that at all.

Don't even fucking go there. People who say that shit are brainwashed by right wing politicians and insanity. Marriage has a long and complicated history more than just what you want it to insinuate, so you can't take the word and use it to describe a legal binding contract and not have it apply to ALL unions between two people in this country. :rolleyes:

[the art of war]

I'm not judging the kids bro - I just am very sensitive to how shitty life can be for a kid and I think that this world is not a good place for that sort of a scenario. I dunno I don't think I can get the way I feel across without seeming like I hate gay people, which is not the fact here at all.

[Shibby]

I'd support a civil union, I have no problems with that at all. I've known two kids who were adopted, never known somebody who was born from a surrogate. I don't like either situation in this world for the kid frankly.

I agree with the marriage point. I'm sure you have heard me say before that all marriage should be civil unions and a marriage should be something in the church like a baptism.

I have seen a few kids with gay parents when I was living in the San Fran area. They were happy and very real about life. I think as always it's not so much about the parents being gay, it's about parenting.

[the art of war]

Don't even fucking go there. People who say that shit are brainwashed by right wing politicians and insanity. Marriage has a long and complicated history more than just what you want it to insinuate, so you can't take the word and use it to describe a legal binding contract and not have it apply to ALL unions between two people in this country. :rolleyes:

think what you want man, you obviously feel much stronger about this than I do - I am just saying how I feel, I'm sorry it bothers you but I'm not changing it.

[Shibby]

I'm not judging the kids bro - I just am very sensitive to how shitty life can be for a kid and I think that this world is not a good place for that sort of a scenario. I dunno I don't think I can get the way I feel across without seeming like I hate gay people, which is not the fact here at all.

Think back 30 or more years. There are a lot of things that weren't a good place for "this world" at the time. How did we improve as a culture and as people...?

[NewbieChris]

I'm not judging the kids bro - I just am very sensitive to how shitty life can be for a kid and I think that this world is not a good place for that sort of a scenario. I dunno I don't think I can get the way I feel across without seeming like I hate gay people, which is not the fact here at all.

I didn't say that you hate the gays. What I am expressing to you is that, I don't think your judgment of the situation is helping those kids. It may not be a judgment of the people, but it is a judgment of their situation. They both make the childs life more difficult, instead of saying. For example:

You are saying: "These kids have a hard life because they have gay parents"

Instead of (assuming its a good family): "These kids have food, a roof and people who love and care about them surrounding them"

Does that make sense?

[the art of war]

Think back 30 or more years. There are a lot of things that weren't a good place for "this world" at the time. How did we improve as a culture and as people...?

I don't see this as one of those situations bro - I assume you are insinuating to race issues ? If so , like I said , I don't see this like that at all. Race and sexual preference is a topic I don't even like to compare because they are separate to me and that bothers a lot of people.

[the art of war]

I didn't say that you hate the gays. What I am expressing to you is that, I don't think your judgment of the situation is helping those kids. It may not be a judgment of the people, but it is a judgment of their situation. They both make the childs life more difficult, instead of saying. For example:

You are saying: "These kids have a hard life because they have gay parents"

Instead of (assuming its a good family): "These kids have food, a roof and people who love and care about them surrounding them"

Does that make sense?

yeah that would make sense to me bro but the fact of it is I'm not shut out from what any family can offer or lack there of. I'd love to see kids getting a fair shake in any situation, I just don't see it here, regardless of food and love - which I'm not trying to debate at all man.