Amanda knox retrial

[Mr I]

Seems italy aren't happy with the appeal process, she would be extradited back in jail if found guilty

[Scrumhalf]

I can guarantee she won't be extradited. The US constitution has protection against double jeopardy.

[Mr I]

I can guarantee she won't be extradited. The US constitution has protection against double jeopardy.

She wasn't tried in the US judicial system.

[Scrumhalf]

She wasn't tried in the US judicial system.

Does not matter. The US won't extradite someone if it means that their rights as a US citizen as guaranteed by the US constitution will be violated.

Same reason why France won't extradite their citizens to the US unless the US guarantees not to invoke the death penalty, because the death penalty is not there under French law.

[Mr I]

^ may well be right Scrum, but not sure for the reason of double jeopardy

[Scrumhalf]

You can't get tried twice for the same crime under the 5th Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Once you are found not guilty of a crime, you can't be retried for the same crime. This is to prevent the state from persecuting people it may find objectionable for whatever reason until they finally can get a guilty verdict.

[Mr I]

You can't get tried twice for the same crime under the 5th Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Once you are found not guilty of a crime, you can't be retried for the same crime. This is to prevent the state from persecuting people it may find objectionable for whatever reason until they finally can get a guilty verdict.

Yeah I'm certainly not arguing that, or in fact that the US may block extradition of Knox. I'm just saying that your above statement is probably really applicable/intended to those people that were tried under your own legal system.

Put it this way, if she doesn't attand the trial in Italy, its gonna look odd, Italy is not a backward country.

[Scrumhalf]

I'm just saying that your above statement is probably really applicable/intended to those people that were tried under your own legal system.

No, it is not.

The US (and France or any other "developed country" for that matter) will not extradite their citizen into a situation that will violate the rights granted by their own judicial system.

Here is how extradition works. A country will extradite a citizen only if it is assured that the accused will meet the standard of due process that they would get in their own country. In other words, will Amanda Knox get the same due process that she would get if she were tried in the US? Clearly in this case, the answer is NO, because she would never have been tried a second time in the US. So clearly, extradition will put her in a situation that is not consistent with what would have happened to her under the US judicial system.

It is the same story for France extraditing someone to the US to stand trial. France insists on guarantees that the death penalty will not be invoked before agreeing to extradite anyone because if the person was tried in the French courts, they would not be subject to the death penalty.

[Mr I]

No, it is not.

The US (and France or any other "developed country" for that matter) will not extradite their citizen into a situation that will violate the rights granted by their own judicial system.

Here is how extradition works. A country will extradite a citizen only if it is assured that the accused will meet the standard of due process that they would get in their own country. In other words, will Amanda Knox get the same due process that she would get if she were tried in the US? Clearly in this case, the answer is NO, because she would never have been tried a second time in the US. So clearly, extradition will put her in a situation that is not consistent with what would have happened to her under the US judicial system.

It is the same story for France extraditing someone to the US to stand trial. France insists on guarantees that the death penalty will not be invoked before agreeing to extradite anyone because if the person was tried in the French courts, they would not be subject to the death penalty.

We had this with the NASSA guy with autism, well I'm not doubting what you say at all as a principle then.

Let me tell ya something though, Italy has an eventual tendency to get justice

[dago]

You can't get tried twice for the same crime under the 5th Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Once you are found not guilty of a crime, you can't be retried for the same crime. This is to prevent the state from persecuting people it may find objectionable for whatever reason until they finally can get a guilty verdict.

Let me ask you this Scrum. Take David cam for example Indiana state trooper repeatedly tried and convicted sentenced to multiple life sentences but keeps getting a new trial asking for a change of venue because of publicity. How many times does he have to be convicted? If a man gets acquitted he can't be tried again because its double jeopardy but if found guilty they can get another trial and another why is that same rule not applied on a conviction?

[Mr I]

I'll leave it for scrum

[Scrumhalf]

Let me ask you this Scrum. Take David cam for example Indiana state trooper repeatedly tried and convicted sentenced to multiple life sentences but keeps getting a new trial asking for a change of venue because of publicity. How many times does he have to be convicted? If a man gets acquitted he can't be tried again because its double jeopardy but if found guilty they can get another trial and another why is that same rule not applied on a conviction?

I don't know the specifics of the case you are referring to, but the state can re-open a case or grant a retrial or whatever if there is a possibility of miscarriage of justice, like new evidence emerged, or the constitutional rights of the accused were violated, for example, he was not granted counsel or did not have a fair trial, etc.

I am no expert on constitutional law, but I suspect the reason "double jeopardy" applies one way but not the other is to protect the individual from the state, regardless of which way the verdict goes.

[dago]

I know this Guy personally not saying that's a good thing either. You can read about it shaneragland.com he killed a U/K football player on his birthday sniped him off the front o
Porch of a frat house in Lexington KY with a 243 deer rifle. Got away with it for years then told his girlfriend who in turn told the police. Convicted by a jury sentenced to 30 years. His dad hired a hot shot lawyer got him a new trial Shane was released on a million dollar appeal bond. Was granted a change of venue to western KY because of publicity. The states key witness the girl refused to testify after threats on her life were made. Said she could not go through another trial. He pled guilty to man slaughter and was granted time served I think he did about 3 years total. Tried convicted sentenced to 39 years for murder and out walking around free today.

[Mr I]

^ the interesting concept is that, if its decided that the original trial or appeal, was flawed either technically or whatever, then clearly justice was not served and thus its not a case of bring tried twice for the same offence per se, its actually a case of the original trial was incomplete, and needs.completing.

Notwithstanding scrums point, I suspect this is what international lawyers will be debating.

At the end of the day, extradition agreement or not, countries.do what they want to do. The UK had no.issue handing over brit pakki bombers for the US to torture in. guantanamo but straight told theme to fuck off when it came to the NASSA hacker, just found a technicality.

[Turbo3000]

She won't be extradited. Scrum laid it out like a boss.

No more Italian vacations for Knox.