Obamacare failing....?????

[chuckz28]

Frank I am certain nobody wants poor people or anybody else to be in a bad spot. We just all have different ideas on how to achieve a better healthcare system. for me my biggest issue is very high cost and not having the option to forgo insurance all together.

[Keiser]

Treatment for a regular broken "arm" is not 50k. I do love your uneducated guess.

Time stamp 1:14.

The Nurse has spoken. Is your argument here that healthcare costs aren't too high or did you just want to cherry pick one minor little thing out of my otherwise well though out post to nitpick? I'd like to hear you elaborate more on your views here and let's have a healthy debate. Also, define "regular" broken arm. What does that mean? Hairline fracture, clean break, dislocation?

I have some experience here. I work in the healthcare industry.

So, tell me let's say I break my arm, a clean break and have to go into the hospital for surgery to repair it with plates, screws, and a cast how much is that going to cost me? Probably more than 50k?

How much does an appendix surgery cost?

[chuckz28]

Actually scrum..I agree.. with most of that the problem is the tax base and waste of it. From my understanding..almost half the people in this country don't pay taxes... everyone should...it would create the money needed to cover all...That plus getting control of the fraud waste and abuse..we could do it easy.. but honestly..no matter whos in DC....it wont change..because then they wont be making money...

Valid points. Universal healthcare is a great idea in a utopian society, however our government, or any government for that matter cannot handle the task without waste and corruption. Also the idea of fairness differs from the left to the right.

[Keiser]

Actually scrum..I agree.. with most of that the problem is the tax base and waste of it. From my understanding..almost half the people in this country don't pay taxes... everyone should...it would create the money needed to cover all...That plus getting control of the fraud waste and abuse..we could do it easy.. but honestly..no matter whos in DC....it wont change..because then they wont be making money...

You agree with a single payer govt system? You agree with Scrum on that? I actually don't want govt healthcare. I think it's a bad idea. I don't want a single payer system.

I want regulations put on the healthcare insurance companies and I want the cost of medical care to be regulated and the same across the board. If I get an appendix surgery in california or I get one in Alabama it costs the same no matter what and it costs the same whether I have insurance or not.

You know what the most ridiculous things is that the doctors and hospitals have different costs for someone using their insurance vs someone paying cash. Getting that appendix out? It's going to be 90k if we use your insurace, or 30k if you pay cash. What? And Turbo3000 tell me that doesn't happen.

[Scrumhalf]

Valid points. Universal healthcare is a great idea in a utopian society, however our government, or any government for that matter cannot handle the task without waste and corruption. Also the idea of fairness differs from the left to the right.

Utopian? Surely you jest. Here is a map of all the countries (as of 2012) with universal health care. Note - Canada and pretty much all of Europe is there.




How come all these other countries have managed to do it? Are they smarter than us? More benevolent than us? In the US, capitalism bordering on laissez-faire may be king and socialism a bad word, but it is important to not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

And don't forget guys - the US spends FAR FAR more on healthcare per capita than ANY of these countries with universal healthcare. Any anyone with the most rudimentary grasp of economics will be able to understand what a drag on the country healthcare spending can be.

[Keiser]

We were sold on the promise premiums would decrease ( https://youtu.be/66bgpRRSDD4 ) but neither I, nor anyone I know is paying less than they were before the ACA. Quite the opposite.

They did decrease. Without Obamacare they would have gone up 50%. With it they only went up 25% so having Obamacare did decrease most people's premiums even though they still went up across the board. All Obamacare turned out to be was what Romneycare was in Massachusetts which was pretty successful I believe and honestly just because 1 or 2 providers pulls out of the markeplace doesn't mean it failed.

[Scrumhalf]

Here is a slightly more updated list:

https://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/...hcare-by-date/

Summary: We have millions of uninsured people and pay way more per capita. And yet we insist on not fixing the system. Pretty much the definition of stupidity, when perfectly good examples of successful soluttions are presented, and yet we refuse to even copy or adopt any of them.

Again, universal healthcare is not utopian, guys! We need to get that out of our heads. It is not only achievable, IT HAS BEEN DONE IN A LOT OF PLACES!!! And we also need to accept that maybe the US is not the best and the smartest at everything, but we should at least be smart enough to copy a good idea when someone else has come up with it!

[Turbo3000]

You agree with a single payer govt system? You agree with Scrum on that? I actually don't want govt healthcare. I think it's a bad idea. I don't want a single payer system.

I want regulations put on the healthcare insurance companies and I want the cost of medical care to be regulated and the same across the board. If I get an appendix surgery in california or I get one in Alabama it costs the same no matter what and it costs the same whether I have insurance or not.

You know what the most ridiculous things is that the doctors and hospitals have different costs for someone using their insurance vs someone paying cash. Getting that appendix out? It's going to be 90k if we use your insurace, or 30k if you pay cash. What? And Turbo3000 tell me that doesn't happen.

Yes that happens.

I want anything but a single payer system. Fuck that. Insurance companies have needed more freedom regarding competition for years. I should be able to purchase health care from a company in Texas, if it meets my needs.

[lipripper]

[QUOTE=M00chie69;748026]You agree with a single payer govt system? You agree with Scrum on that? I actually don't want govt healthcare. I think it's a bad idea. I don't want a single payer system.

QUOTE]

I said.....Actually scrum..I agree.. with most of that. No where did I say all that...:rofl:

[chuckz28]

If costs little Britain 2.7 trillion and they have a 66 day wait for a physical, or four to six months for a knee replacement and over a month for follow-up radiation therapy after cancer surgery in Canada. The Health Care Waiting Game - NYTimes.com

They are far from perfect themselves. Hell in Venezuela that I keep hearing about being so good can't even afford to keep newborn children out of cardboard boxes in hospitals https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ery/index.html

[lipripper]

Military health care..VA health care is pretty much single payer..it sucks..I deal with it... but at least its something...I think you should be able to see who ya want when ya want..but the cost needs to somehow be controlled.. its crazy..

[Bouncer]

Scrum, I see a lot of South American countries on that map you posted. I imagine that while they may technically offer health care I'd imagine the extent of that health care consist of alcohol and some cotton swabs. Lol

[Scrumhalf]

Scrum, I see a lot of South American countries on that map you posted. I imagine that while they may technically offer health care I'd imagine the extent of that health care consist of alcohol and some cotton swabs. Lol

Fair enough, which is why I didn't point them out for comparison and stuck to Europe, Australia, etc. which is a fairer comparison. When you talk about medical skill, technology, know-how, etc., the US is second to none, but what's the point if it is so expensive or inaccessible that it is out of reach for a significant fraction of citizens? Isn't that a shameful situation?

[Keiser]

Yes that happens.

I want anything but a single payer system. Fuck that. Insurance companies have needed more freedom regarding competition for years. I should be able to purchase health care from a company in Texas, if it meets my needs.

Turbo and I agree on healthcare. I think a single payer system would be awful. I've seen how it works in Canada and I don't like it. My Doctor doesn't even take insurance but I'm fortunate enough to have above average income so I just pay everything cash, but if I had a major illness or injury I'd need the health insurance to kick in. I think Doctors should be able to opt out as well, even with a single payer system.

[redback]

America Fuck yeh!!