London car attack and knife attack

[Mr I]

And I'm not saying scrum isn't a good guy. I am admittedly generalising

[Bouncer]

agree same here. i don't disagree with scrum. but at the same time it becomes easier and easier to see Islam as my enemy regardless of what my government has done to provoke it.

[Mr I]

The Islamic outlook as polarising as it is came way before Iraq
Of that I can tell you for sure being from a northern English town originally growing up not far from Bradford and salts mills of Saltaire.

[Bouncer]

Scrum would argue that colonialism has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years before Iraq. Thus the extremist Islamic outlook...

I'm conflicted. It goes back so far that it becomes impossible to draw a line in the sand with that kind of outlook.

We need to gtfo of their countries, we can all agree there.

[Scrumhalf]

We can't seem to comprehend this basic reality - that our aggression in the ME is directly feeding into the narrative of AQ, ISIS, etc., fair or not.

Every bomb we drop, every drone strike, adds to this resentment. And even if 99% of the population is fine, all you need is a handful of people that can be brainwashed to fight the holy war against the crusader. It is really an absurdly simple game plan and we are calling for it like chumps.

[Bouncer]

We can't seem to comprehend this basic reality - that our aggression in the ME is directly feeding into the narrative of AQ, ISIS, etc., fair or not.

Every bomb we drop, every drone strike, adds to this resentment. And even if 99% of the population is fine, all you need is a handful of people that can be brainwashed to fight the holy war against the crusader. It is really an absurdly simple game plan and we are calling for it like chumps.

say we pull out today. not a single bomb dropped ever again, not a single bullet fired ever again. do you think the extremist terror attacks will stop? do you think it will take time? how long? 100 years?

extremist are not rational people. they don't think like that. they will continue to be extremist in the same way a serial killer will continue to kill.

extremist are not the typical Muslim. You act as if these extremist will say "gee golly they have pulled out of my country I will go back to being a normal fella now." lol

So while you're not wrong. It's also not a solution. We will continue to be attacked by extremist regardless. That ship has sailed. We are a target and will continue to be for a long time to come no matter what we do.

[Scrumhalf]

Tell me why we will continue to be attacked. What would their logic be to continue to attack us?

[Bouncer]

Tell me why we will continue to be attacked. What would their logic be to continue to attack us?

Extremist need logic? Lmao. You give them far too much credit.

What is the logic of a pedophile? What is the logic of a serial killer?

[Scrumhalf]

So they would just come halfway around the world to do a suicide attack just for the hell of it. Wait, it must be because "they hate our way of life!"

[Bouncer]

Wait, it must be because "they hate our way of life!"

Your words not mine. Don't confuse me with the typical retard.

Are you saying these extremist are rational? Are you saying there is nothing wrong with them?

You talk about flying half way around the world. Many of these people attack the country of their birth. News flash scrum.. You don't need to be born in the middle east to be a Muslim extremist.

[Scrumhalf]

Their methods are reprehensible nad I never said there is nothing wrong wtih them. However, I think that they are rational enough to not attack people they don't have a particular grudge with.

[Mr I]

"They"

Have been throwing gays off buildings raping women and children etc regardless.

How long are you going to pander and feel sorry?

Yes we should be out of ME and hopefully the terror attacks stop.

But don't you dare then watch the continued beheading etc and genocide and say "we should be doing something"

[Mr I]

The whole of that ME region are iver run with total sub human scum.

Stop blaming it all on the white man, again. It's pathetic

[Bouncer]

Their methods are reprehensible nad I never said there is nothing wrong wtih them. However, I think that they are rational enough to not attack people they don't have a particular grudge with.

Disagree. They are insane in the same way that a serial killer is insane.

We are talking about extremist Muslim terrorists. Not just the average Muslim angry with what the west has done to their homeland.

Those people have a right to be angry. I get it. The west has seriously fucked their world up. But you are starting to get a bit too apologetic for terrorists IMO.

[Scrumhalf]

You are misunderstanding me.

I am all for doing something. We have to decide how much we want to intervene.

Do I like what the Taliban or ISIL stand for? Of course not. They are brutal and reprehensible in every way. I am perfectly fine with saying that we want to do whatever possible, including military action, to remove them from power.

BUT, we have to be willing to face the consequences. It's a war and they are not fighting a conventional tank battle in the deserts in the Middle East. We know how that went the last time Saddam tried. No, they are going to do exactly what they are doing now. And the consequences are that we are going to have these attacks on an ongoing basis. We can reduce it with vigilance, but it is going to keep happeninng.

Now, we can be smart at HOW we fight these guys. But that requires putting boots on the ground, by going around winning the hearts of the people, by controlling territory, so that they DON'T get brainwashed or coerced into becoming suicide bombers. It is NOT by dropping bombs from 20,000 feet or doing drone strikes that are as likely to kill an innocent civilian as a terrorist. By indiscriminate attacks, we are feeding directly into the terrorist narrative, that THEY are the ones who will protect the people, that THEY are the ones who should be supported by providing money, or foot soldiers, or whatever.

That's my point. Keep doing what we are doing, and we are going to keep seeing Londons and Parises and Brussels over and over. Let's not get surprised and outraged when it happens.