Two of the funniest clips you will see on gun control

[Bouncer]

isn't fixing the tool option much easier? Or is your answer to do nothing at all? Surely you would agree that something has to be done?

You want to understand our way of thinking? Here it is. Crystal clear you pussified fuck.

When a drunk driver gets into a Corvette, that can easily violate the speed limit several times over, and kills a family in a minivan, do you blame the alcohol? Do you blame the car that’s capable of breaking all posted speed limits? Or do you blame the driver of the car? Do you call for prohibition on alcohol? Do you demand Chevy stop making the Corvette? Of course not. You always blame the driver.

When a terrorist blows himself up in a crowded market do you blame the bomb, or do you blame the terrorist?

When a terrorist rents a truck and drives it over a crowd of people, do you blame rental trucks or do you blame the terrorist driving it?

In the case of the Florida shooter, why aren’t people blaming the FBI who had multiple reports of this mans actions and threatening statements and failed to investigate? Why don’t they blame the school who prohibited him from having a backpack on campus because he was known to be mentally unstable? Why don't people blame the police who had been called to his house 39 times in 4 years? This was a massive failure of the system to detect a clear threat yet you are worried about the fucking tool used.

[Chadd77]

What I would like to see, but am also not naive enough to believe it will happen anytime soon, is the same gun reform we had here. I believe it works. I believe that if it were implemented over there you would not see these high numbers of toddler deaths or mass shootings.

And that extremist liberal thinking is why the NRA exists. That is not a common sense gun law. Trying to compare your country to ours is ludicrous.

And no you didn't really answer B's question. I don't think he's trying to get you to say it's a mental health issue. But if that's what you think part of the reason is then why? Why now more than ever do we seem to have a mental health problem? People 20 years ago didn't have mental health issues? I'm sure they did. I think it's deeper than that.

[redback]

So why haven't you answered B's question?

And what are you trying to solve? The total number of toddlers killed? If so let's discuss that. How will banning "assault rifles" help keep toddlers safe? If THAT is your focus I'd love to see very strict laws that gun owners with children must store their guns in a locked safe.

Chadd. B is trying to get me to admit that the problem is 100% mental health. I have already explained that I believe mental health combined with easy gun access is the problem. You can read that above yes?

I also have asked for opinions on how our suicide rate dropped by 74% and all homicides and crime rates dropped but nobody seems to want to talk about that. Why is that?

You ask what i'm trying to solve. Clearly I am not in the position to SOLVE anything. I am trying to understand the general attitudes and reasoning. I am also hoping that people will take on board the positive impact gun reform had over here.

I don't believe I have made comments on banning just assault rifles. I think you are making an assumption there. The toddler deaths are only part of the issue.

What I would like to see, but am also not naive enough to believe it will happen anytime soon, is the same gun reform we had here. I believe it works. I believe that if it were implemented over there you would not see these high numbers of toddler deaths or mass shootings.

So far the argument here has been that the problem is not the tool but mental health. Maybe that is true. If it is true then what do you do about it? If it comes down to the problem being either mental health or "the tool", isn't fixing the tool option much easier? Or is your answer to do nothing at all? Surely you would agree that something has to be done?

[Chadd77]

Well if you want to play like that bouncer, I need you to explain to me that if it is a mental health issue why is one toddler a week being shot by a gun? (you have now seen the other post)

That has absolutely nothing to do with mental health. A toddler should not have access to a gun period.

So why haven't you answered B's question?

And what are you trying to solve? The total number of toddlers killed? If so let's discuss that. How will banning "assault rifles" help keep toddlers safe? If THAT is your focus I'd love to see very strict laws that gun owners with children must store their guns in a locked safe.

[Bouncer]

Just let me clarify something..

Obviously if you carry out a mass shooting you likely have mental heath issues. That is clear and not really up for debate.

Now combine mental health issues with easy gun access. There is the problem.

So do we agree on that point?

Now we are talking about a solution right?

So if we were to focus entirely on mental health and totally forget gun reform, what would that actually look like?

Hard to say what that would look like. It's certainly a complex issue.

But as I've stated before. Your rights as a safe and responsible car owner should not be taken away based on the fact that there are a staggering amount of death and serious accidents every single day across the globe. I firmly believe that you as a car owner should not have your freedoms and rights taken away because of a massive drunk driving problem or people looking at their cell phones while driving problem.

I look at our gun rights and freedoms exactly the same way. There are always going to be those who abuse those freedoms. Their actions should not mean everyone loses their rights and freedoms. That's exactly what the American ideal is about.

You have to understand the history and culture bro. You have to understand our nations foundation is built on firearms. We took our independence with firearms, for better or worse we wiped out the Native Americans with firearms and went on to become the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. Our founding fathers were not stupid men. Their ideals is what made us who we are. These clearly brilliant men thought firearms were so important that they chose to list them only second behind the freedom of speech in our bill of rights.

[redback]

Just let me clarify something..

Obviously if you carry out a mass shooting you likely have mental heath issues. That is clear and not really up for debate.

Now combine mental health issues with easy gun access. There is the problem.

So do we agree on that point?

Now we are talking about a solution right?

So if we were to focus entirely on mental health and totally forget gun reform, what would that actually look like?

[redback]

Its carried over to the other thread might as well just discuss it there. Same points are mentioned. I don't believe it is mental health.

[Bouncer]

Well if you want to play like that bouncer, I need you to explain to me that if it is a mental health issue why is one toddler a week being shot by a gun? (you have now seen the other post)

That has absolutely nothing to do with mental health. A toddler should not have access to a gun period.

Mental health of the parent and lack of responsibility. Guns are just as accessable as they were 25 years ago yet this issue was not happening. This is a break down of society. The object itself (gun) is exactly the same as it was 25 years ago when all this was unheard of.

Now let's get back to answering my common sense question with an actual answer please.

[redback]

No no no, you haven't addressed anything.

All the same guns were available, and there were LESS gun laws back then.

I need you to explain how it's now the guns fault when it wasn't back then. Admit that this is some kind of recent mental health problem and we can have a real conversation.

And I have no idea what your talking about when you say toddlers are shooting each other up.

Well if you want to play like that bouncer, I need you to explain to me that if it is a mental health issue why is one toddler a week being shot by a gun? (you have now seen the other post)

That has absolutely nothing to do with mental health. A toddler should not have access to a gun period.

[Bouncer]

No no no, you haven't addressed anything.

All the same guns were available, and there were LESS gun laws back then.

I need you to explain how it's now the guns fault when it wasn't back then. Admit that this is some kind of recent mental health problem and we can have a real conversation.

And I have no idea what your talking about when you say toddlers are shooting each other up.

[redback]

guns were everywhere in America including AR-15's 25 years ago yet mass school shootings were pretty much unheard of. explain. don't deflect or change the subject, please address and think about what I just said.

keep in mind there were LESS gun laws in America back then...

Yes, since 2011 your mass shootings have tripled. I acknowledge that and I still believe that making weapons harder to access for the average nut job can only be of benefit to the mass shooting epidemic in your country.

Now I have addressed what you have asked me to. Why don't you extend the same courtesy and address my point above re our suicide rating dropping by 74%.

Also still waiting to hear your comments on the deaths involving guns and toddlers. All those stats are easily available online.

I actually find this really interesting hearing your opinions on this because in our country the majority has the extreme opposite view.

I'm not suggesting anyone is right or wrong. I'm just interested in an informed debate without any bullshit. Not "fuk you you don't understand our country". Let's leave that shit out of it.

Interested in stats and real unbiased info.

[Bouncer]

Bouncer there are mental health issues in every country. I don't believe mental health is the issue. After our guns laws came in the rate of death by sucicide dropped by 74%.

guns were everywhere in America including AR-15's 25 years ago yet mass school shootings were pretty much unheard of. explain. don't deflect or change the subject, please address and think about what I just said.

keep in mind there were LESS gun laws in America back then...

[redback]

Bouncer there are mental health issues in every country. I don't believe mental health is the issue. After our guns laws came in the rate of death by sucicide dropped by 74%.

[Bouncer]

I agree that we don't NEED....those types of clips/mags/cartridges sizes, period.

BUT where do we the rule or minimums? Some guns run 5, 6 rounds.

Some 9, 13, 15...not being an ass, but of those numbers I gave you, what's the right number that I should carry?

There will always be people who abuse freedoms. But we cannot allow those few to take away the freedoms of the many.

Mass shooters account for .00001% of gun owners. They are NOT the norm. They are a very very very small majority in comparison to the amount of gun owners in this country. We cannot allow insane people to dictate our freedoms. We must address the root cause. Mental health.

Guns are not new in this country. We have always had guns and we've had semi auto rifles for a very long time. Mass shootings are a new phenomenon. There is a reason this type of shit didn't happen 30 years ago and the guns have nothing to do with it. It's the mental state of society.

Fun fact...

[Bouncer]

It's not the point. So it's semi-auto. Big deal. What is the magazine size 30 rounds or something like that? Why do you need that? Someone weak with a fragile mental state owns one and look what happens. If there wasn't an issue with mass shootings then sure, have your guns, thing is there is a massive issue.

So address the actual cause, the mental health issue. An object does nothing to anyone. It takes the person.

There are millions and millions of law abiding AR owners who harm nobody. Magazine capacity has nothing to do with any kind of mental state. You are talking absolute nonsense.