Trump pardons the ranchers who stood up to the government with armed resistance.

[Keiser]

I'm not sure where you are going with this.

We are not in the Wild West any more, where federal authority all the way from DC was tenuous at best.

I've moved on from the Hammonds and zero'd in on this statement from you:

The West was created by people who slaughtered the Indians and the buffalo and raped the land. Let's be real. The myth and romance of the American West is fiction built on the bloody reality of murder, greed and broken promises.

My point is that if the Indians had guns (and lest be honest many of them were savages as well and attacked and raped not only the white man, but rival tribes) they would have won the west and then your position would be that the savage Indians slaughtered innocent, peaceful European immigrants who were simply coming here looking for a better life.

[Scrumhalf]

Let me go back to what you said:

So when you say, "The West has a problem with white nationalists, sovereign citizens......" one could argue that you're saying the West has a problem with behavior consistent of how the west was originally formed/created.

Yes. The West has a problem with behavior consistent with how the West was originally created. The problem is that it isn't 1818 now, but 2018 and sovereign citizen arguments that claim that the federal government has no authority over Western lands has been rejected by the courts over and over.

[Bouncer]

rejected by the courts over and over.

if the courts rejected something you fundamentally disagreed with you wouldn't just say "well if the courts say so I guess it's A okay!"

not defending the bundies. don't care about them one way or another. just pointing out that a courts ruling doesn't change what someone believes is unjust like the bundies do.

For example, if the supreme court rules that abortion is now illegal in all cases no matter what the situation. Me and you would know that's a bunch of horse shit and we would reject them regardless of their ruling. It's what we believe is right versus what they believe is right.

I think the bundies get sympathy because they are seen to have stood up against the "big bad government" for what they believe in and won.

[Keiser]

rejected by the courts over and over.

The courts also recently upheld a travel ban from 6-7 Muslim countries which I don't believe you agree with, right?

[Scrumhalf]

Not sure where this thread is going. Are you seriously suggesting that the federal government is not allowed to own land outside DC? I am talking about a specific thing that has been to be constitutional by the courts and you guys are going off on some kind of whataboutism about unrelated court cases. Every court case is different. Unless you feel that people can take over national parks or trash BLM land without any consequences.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Scrumhalf]

If you want a serious discussion about land issues in the West, a topic that I am passionate about and have more than a passing level of knowledge about, I'll be happy to engage. Otherwise, I am wasting my time.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Bouncer]

If you want a serious discussion about land issues in the West, a topic that I am passionate about and have more than a passing level of knowledge about, I'll be happy to engage. Otherwise, I am wasting my time.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

it's not strictly about land issues though is it.. this Bundy thing brings up a whole bunch of arguments that tend to tie into other issues in America. particularly the idea that they stood up to the "big bad government". no matter if you are on the left or the right, black or white, or anything in between.. that idea appeals to people in some deep way i think. my personal feeling is that I don't necessarily agree with everything they did or how they handled every situation but they fought for what they believed in and that's powerful.