Is going green good for the poor?

[lipripper]

Liz Peek: Ocasio-Cortez backs green policies that would hurt the poor and cripple our economy

Pretty good article showing the reality of it and it's effects. Relates to the people of France and why they feel the way they do...makes perfect sense

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/liz-...le-our-economy

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[Bouncer]

long terms we have no choice but to go green.

but it needs to be done in small steps over time so the impact is minimal on normal people.

the way they have done it in France is absolutely not good for the normal people.

[Scrumhalf]

First, the protests in France are not due to green policies. There is overwhelming support to go green in Europe anong all social and economic strata.

The protests were triggered by Macron's decision to impose a regressive tax on fuel. It was merely the straw that broke the camel's back.

The real reason is the HUGE transfer of wealth that has happened when Macron dropped income taxes for the wealthy and for corporations a few months ago. The French are very good at protesting the excesses of the aristocracy and the ruling class and that is what they are doing here.

So, don't fall for the cute sound bites that seem to show up not just on Fox News by other MSM outlets in the US, showing how people are protesting gas taxes. That was just the last straw.

Independent news outlets have actually been talking to people there and trying to understand the root causes of their discontent and that shows clearly that the common man there feels that the rich and powerful are robbing them blind, getting huge tax breaks while the cost of living keeps going up for the poor and the middle class.

As far as the cost of green policies are concnerned, yes it is going to be painful for all, but waiting will only make it worse. What we need is a well-coordinated and massively organized national plan to address this. That's why some people are calling it The moon landing program of our time. Because this should be thought of as total war. Where all the resources of the nation, physical, people and mental assets, are coordinated for a common, well-coordinated purpose.

Waiting will make it much, much worse.

[lipripper]

It's all tied together scrum over the years it's become excessive...don't just throw darts...look at the reality the people are going thru.

First, the protests in France are not due to green policies. There is overwhelming support to go green in Europe anong all social and economic strata.

The protests were triggered by Macron's decision to impose a regressive tax on fuel. It was merely the straw that broke the camel's back.

The real reason is the HUGE transfer of wealth that has happened when Macron dropped income taxes for the wealthy and for corporations a few months ago. The French are very good at protesting the excesses of the aristocracy and the ruling class and that is what they are doing here.

So, don't fall for the cute sound bites that seem to show up not just on Fox News by other MSM outlets in the US, showing how people are protesting gas taxes. That was just the last straw.

Independent news outlets have actually been talking to people there and trying to understand the root causes of their discontent and that shows clearly that the common man there feels that the rich and powerful are robbing them blind, getting huge tax breaks while the cost of living keeps going up for the poor and the middle class.

As far as the cost of green policies are concnerned, yes it is going to be painful for all, but waiting will only make it worse. What we need is a well-coordinated and massively organized national plan to address this. That's why some people are calling it The moon landing program of our time. Because this should be thought of as total war. Where all the resources of the nation, physical, people and mental assets, are coordinated for a common, well-coordinated purpose.

Waiting will make it much, much worse.

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[Scrumhalf]

It's all tied together scrum over the years it's become excessive...don't just throw darts...look at the reality the people are going thru.

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I am absolutely not throwing darts, rip. Honest.

You guys make fun of me for being a far left liberal. But that's exactly what people on the left have been saying for years.

What do you think Bernie has been saying? He fully gets what the common person is going through. He says, as most progressives on the left do, that the common working person is having a harder and harder time making ends meet. They are working multiple jobs, rents and food prices have gone up. Meanwhile they look around and see CEO salaries going up ny 15, 20%, corporate profits through the roof, the top tax brackets paying ridiculously low income taxes, corporate taxes slashed, and safety net programs like medical and social security slashed.

It's because our whole economic structure, more so in this country but true elsewhere as well, has been taken over by the rich, corporate moneyed interests.

Trust me, we are on the same side here. Progressives are for the common people. That's why Bernie is so popular among the rust belt workers and the people struggling to make ends meet. Because he gets their problems.

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[Scrumhalf]

You know about marginal tax rates, don't you? The tax you pay on your highest dollar?

There were more tax brackets under Eisenhower than we have today. And you know what the marginal tax rate was for the highest tax bracket?

90%.

That's right. So, a billionaire may pay no taxes for the first $50K they make, 10% for 50-100K and so on, increasing to 90% for anything over, say, $100M.

In other words, what society is saying is that if you are making $500M a year, you can afford to pay 90% of everything over $100M and still have more than enough money to live luxuriously.

This is a progressive tax structure because everyone making under $100K only pays 10% in this example, while people making billions who can afford to pay more, do.

This was under a Republican president, mind you.

Now, even Democrats don't propose anything like that because back in Eisenhower's tine, the Republicans were to the left of where centrist Democrats are today. The reason is that most of the politicians are in the pockets of corporate interests. Of billionaires like Sheldon Adelson and the Koch Brothers.

Some of these guys admittedly have ideological positions but most don't give two shits about Democrat vs. Republican. They will fund whoever will help them make money and it just happens that republicans will do it a bit better than democrats. If you don't believe me, see where centrist Democrats get their support from. The Cory Bookers and Chuck Schumers of the world. That's right, Wall Street and the big corporate oaymasters.

That's why I like and support politicians that refuse to take corporate money. Sanders. Ro Khanna. That way, I know they will listen to their constituents and not their rich benefactors.

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[Bouncer]

Waiting will make it much, much worse.

we shouldn't wait. but like you said it needs to be better coordinated and it needs to be done in healthy steps. raising gas prices to insane levels to force the masses into electric power is a recipe for disaster.

[lipripper]

But...ALL COUNTRIES should be held to the same standard...same tax rates etc on this whole carbon tax ...just because 3rd world countries didn't develope as fast as Western countries should give them a pass.....scrums says it's all out war....but then he's also said the 3 Rd world countries should be given a pass...held to a lower standard for a certain time...

Look at China....more carbon from them get pumped into the environment than us... India....etc....yet the people of Western Europe. N the ysa are expected to pay more? Nope...not in my book ..standards should be the same....

It's not britian.....or Germany...or France....or usa....it's the world issue...all should pay even

we shouldn't wait. but like you said it needs to be better coordinated and it needs to be done in healthy steps. raising gas prices to insane levels to force the masses into electric power is a recipe for disaster.

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[Scrumhalf]

Getting back to climate, here is what is possibly one of the saddest graphs I have had the misfortune of seeing.

This shows the reduction in CO2 we would need per year to keep global temperature rise under 1.5C. If we had started in 2000, we would have had to only reduce by 4% per year. Now, because we sat on our hands for the last 18 years, we need to reduce carbon emissions at 18% per year, a more painful goal.

This is why we can't afford to wait. This data is from Stefan Rahmstorf, professor of physics at Potsdam University in Berlin.

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[Bouncer]

Getting back to climate, here is what is possibly one of the saddest graphs I have had the misfortune of seeing.

This shows the reduction in CO2 we would need per year to keep global temperature rise under 1.5C. If we had started in 2000, we would have had to only reduce by 4% per year. Now, because we sat on our hands for the last 18 years, we need to reduce carbon emissions at 18% per year, a more painful goal.

This is why we can't afford to wait. This data is from Stefan Rahmstorf, professor of physics at Potsdam University in Berlin.

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agree it's sad and scary and we need to push towards cutting emissions and going green. we are in agreement.

but wtf do we do about china and india? no matter what we do these fucken countries will continue to get worse am I wrong? you aren't proposing we give them some slack are you?

[Scrumhalf]

Also, I wanted to touch on the Macron thing. Here is some background on what Macron has done in France to get everyone so riled up. I got this from a well-respected journalist on Twitter. I don't know the original source of the article but it echoes what most smaller non-MSM sources have been saying.

That's why they are chanting in the streets for Macron to resign. And no, they are NOT chanting we want Trump lol...



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[lipripper]

Scrum has stated in the past...do a search of threads....3rd world countries are entitled to a longer period of time to get to the same standard...because of cost...etc and they are so undeveloped. To me that's picking n choosing..blaming the west and modern civilization for all our problems. Like is our fault we started the industrial revolution and got the world modernized...therefore we are more responsible...lol

agree it's sad and scary and we need to push towards cutting emissions and going green. we are in agreement.

but wtf do we do about china and india? no matter what we do these fucken countries will continue to get worse am I wrong? you aren't proposing we give them some slack are you?

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[Bouncer]

Scrum has stated in the past...do a search of threads....3rd world countries are entitled to a longer period of time to get to the same standard...because of cost...etc and they are so undeveloped. To me that's picking n choosing..blaming the west and modern civilization for all our problems. Like is our fault we started the industrial revolution and got the world modernized...therefore we are more responsible...lol

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is this true scrum? do you believe we should give china and india a pass?

we agree the US needs to improve. but if you are of the mind that the US needs to improve while china and india can continue to fuck about.. then we are in complete disagreement.

[lipripper]

Do a search bro....I'm telling you.....scrum..this is why I said earlier about throwing darts bro...I agree it needs to be cleaned up....but not by a few of some self imposed group who says is responsible and gives others a pass.... hypocrisy my man...

is this true scrum? do you believe we should give china and india a pass?

we agree the US needs to improve. but if you are of the mind that the US needs to improve while china and india can continue to fuck about.. then we are in complete disagreement.

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[Bouncer]

nigga i want to hear him say it right now.