Is going green good for the poor?

[lipripper]

See this is what the progressive movement don't look at..like France...the rich wanna say we are for the people ..then tax the fuck out of the middle tax for some pie in the sky bullshit...while other countries n people aren't.....yet....they wanna say they are for....the people.... I'm all about keeping our Earth clean n right.... But double standards don't cut it.

nigga i want to hear him say it right now.

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[lipripper]

But back to the link....she claims. Going green will fix....racial injustice ....in our country....I would love to hear this explained.....LMFAO.....she's a fucking nut job that talks out of her ass with catch phrases n can't explain it

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[Bouncer]

I just read that 50% of the French population is on a type of welfare. no wonder taxes are going parabolic over there.

[lipripper]

Exactly......this is a progressive movement to wipe out middle class....then you have the rulers....n the rest.... This kills the so called......American dream. If you will......of working hard n doing better then your family did....improving...etc.

I just read that 50% of the French population is on a type of welfare. no wonder taxes are going parabolic over there.

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[Bouncer]

How do the people of France expect the government to be able to pay for a 50% welfare state? Taxes is the only option is it not?

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[Scrumhalf]

I don't know why you guys are making me out to be the bad guy here. I sense a real resentment, like I'm some kind of shill for 3rd world countries to do as they please. We need to get out of that mentality.

What developing countries have said is this:

You guys in the West have had two centuries of industrial growth since the Industrial Revolution where you have taken full advantage of fossil fuels to build your economies with scant thought to the environment. Now, we are at the same stage you were decades ago and just as we are increasing our industrial base, the carbon based economy is being taken away.

We need help. We won't make it if we don't get financial help, or more time, or some combination thereof. Because we are starting from a much more rudimentary state than you are.

------

(Back to Scrumhalf talking here)

I don't have a problem with the premise. It is logical. Obviously, a lot of the discussions in the climate talks and other meetings revolve around how much help should the West be providing.

I don't have hard data on how this was calculated, nor do I necessarily have the expertise in economics to vet the computations.

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[lipripper]

I'd agree....but do you believe this so called carbon tax is going to reduce carbon? Hell no...it's a money grab bro...that's why they are so pissed...they are tired of it... They hide behind bettering the environment by taxiing the people more n more but it's just going to run the welfare state...not improve environment...then by doing this..it squeezes the working class more..put a few more on the welfare side.....seeing the picture?

How do the people of France expect the government to be able to pay for a 50% welfare state? Taxes is the only option is it not?

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[Scrumhalf]

But back to the link....she claims. Going green will fix....racial injustice ....in our country....I would love to hear this explained.....LMFAO.....she's a fucking nut job that talks out of her ass with catch phrases n can't explain it

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Sigh. Easily explained, If only people would calm down and listen.

When you have factories that pollute, whether they are coal-fired power plants or refineries or whatever, they tend to be in economically depressed neighborhoods that are racially heavily skewed towards minorities. This isn't hyperbole or BS - this is an objectively measurable fact.

The reason for this is clear. Rich communities have much stronger NIMBY clout. So, if you need to put up a new power plant or cement factory or whatever, where are you going to put it? Near the rich subdivisions, or in some economically depressed neighborhood on the wrong side of the train tracks? Answer is easy.

This isn't some left-wing palaver as you guys seem to be insinuating. This is solid, empirically sound data, that the poor and the minorities suffer from health effects, cancer, asthma, skin conditions, etc. at significantly higher rates than more affluent communities precisely due to the presence of pollutants in their neighborhoods.

This is why Ocasio-Cortez said that reducing pollution and going to green will, among other things, reduce racial injustice.

Because one can objectively argue that to the extent that affluence drives pollution (bigger cars, bigger houses, more energy cosumption), the people suffering aren't the ones primarily doing the consuming. That is injustice.

Editorial Comment:

Ocasio-Cortez is smarter than 90% of the fossils in Congress today. She's not corrupt, does not take corporate money. I don't know why we wouldn't want 435 congresspersons like her, regardless of political position.

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[lipripper]

Sounds good. But do you honestly believe..that's gonna have an impact on racism? Common scrum.....that's pure bullshit bro be real..think like the common black man...or white country boy living in the ghetto or a rundown single wide trailer in the woods...that isn't even gonna be a thought to them people.....yet you claim it will really effect them....

Sigh. Easily explained, If only people would calm down and listen.

When you have factories that pollute, whether they are coal-fired power plants or refineries or whatever, they tend to be in economically depressed neighborhoods that are racially heavily skewed towards minorities. This isn't hyperbole or BS - this is an objectively measurable fact.

The reason for this is clear. Rich communities have much stronger NIMBY clout. So, if you need to put up a new power plant or cement factory or whatever, where are you going to put it? Near the rich subdivisions, or in some economically depressed neighborhood on the wrong side of the train tracks? Answer is easy.

This isn't some left-wing palaver as you guys seem to be insinuating. This is solid, empirically sound data, that the poor and the minorities suffer from health effects, cancer, asthma, skin conditions, etc. at significantly higher rates than more affluent communities precisely due to the presence of pollutants in their neighborhoods.

This is why Ocasio-Cortez said that reducing pollution and going to green will, among other things, reduce racial injustice.

Because one can objectively argue that to the extent that affluence drives pollution (bigger cars, bigger houses, more energy cosumption), the people suffering aren't the ones primarily doing the consuming. That is injustice.

Editorial Comment:

Ocasio-Cortez is smarter than 90% of the fossils in Congress today. She's not corrupt, does not take corporate money. I don't know why we wouldn't want 435 congresspersons like her, regardless of political position.

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[Scrumhalf]

Racism can take several forms, rip. There's the direct stuff - the overt KKK, white supremacist type stuff which pretty much everyone sane would agree has no place in society.

But there is also the more insidious stuff. We may not think of it as racism, but racial injustice can manifest itself in many ways. Like sticking a coal power plant in a black neighborhood because, well, they didn't have the clout at City Hall to fight it. Or routing an oil pipeline to cross the river downstream of the (heavily white) city of Fargo but upstream of the Indian reservation because, well, we know the pipeline company CEO and the Native Anericans don't.

That's what we are talking about. It isn't overt racism but it is injustice. It is something we need to recognize is prevant, is pervasive and insidious.

What Ocasio-Cortez is saying is that green technologies could benefit this pollution-based injustice. By having clean technologies, the health disparity that is pollution-nased should be greatly mitigated. Of this, there is no doubt. Because it can be quantitatively assessed.

[lipripper]

Sounds nice..great intellect...but not how most folks sees things scrum...with that kind of Outlook and overlap...I could somehow include fishing regulations into it and call it racist because most blacks can't afford to go offshore n catch fish rich white folks can...so we should limit the catch of those species of fish...lol.... I know that's a bit overboard but get where I'm coming from....

Racism can take several forms, rip. There's the direct stuff - the overt KKK, white supremacist type stuff which pretty much everyone sane would agree has no place in society.

But there is also the more insidious stuff. We may not think of it as racism, but racial injustice can manifest itself in many ways. Like sticking a coal power plant in a black neighborhood because, well, they didn't have the clout at City Hall to fight it. Or routing an oil pipeline to cross the river downstream of the (heavily white) city of Fargo but upstream of the Indian reservation because, well, we know the pipeline company CEO and the Native Anericans don't.

That's what we are talking about. It isn't overt racism but it is injustice. It is something we need to recognize is prevant, is pervasive and insidious.

What Ocasio-Cortez is saying is that green technologies could benefit this pollution-based injustice. By having clean technologies, the health disparity that is pollution-nased should be greatly mitigated. Of this, there is no doubt. Because it can be quantitatively assessed.

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[Scrumhalf]

Yeah, but I think most sensible people (and the courts) can distinguish between constitutionally guaranteed essential rights (which the state cannot take away) and something like access to deep sea fishing.

[lipripper]

You sure about that? If so why the big push and injustice in nominating supreme Court judges? Because some are bias....and won't really judge by the Constitution.... It's used against the folks who really stand behind it as written....it's not ment to ...change....

Yeah, but I think most sensible people (and the courts) can distinguish between constitutionally guaranteed essential rights (which the state cannot take away) and something like access to deep sea fishing.

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[Bouncer]

The French are now giving bonuses to the French people end of year and increasing wages by 100 euros per month.

nice and all but i fear this will open the flood gates for more violence across Europe, they've now shown that riots and violence gets you what you want. Germany, Italy and Spain are next. Mcrone came across from a position of weakness. i think he just made shit worse.

[lipripper]

They are trying to quell the protests with peanuts...lol. I listened to his speech...didn't believe it at all...time will tell. The people did the right thing here...I don't agree with destroying shit n looting etc...yet it seems to have gotten the government's attention.

The French are now giving bonuses to the French people end of year and increasing wages by 100 euros per month.

nice and all but i fear this will open the flood gates for more violence across Europe, they've now shown that riots and violence gets you what you want. Germany, Italy and Spain are next.

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