Cutting diet.

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Incorrect when you get to a certain percentage bodyfat... going from 22% to 17% is much different than going from 10% to 5%. Remember, this is being done naturally, I seriously doubt its possible.

It is different, but not by much. People dieting from 10% down to 5% will be more challenging. However, it's harder for women to lose fat in general, and it is realistic for women naturally to lose that each week if their diet is what it needs to be. So, in my experience I think it is probable he will be able to do it.

I have trained 2 girls naturally for BBing shows, and both of them have lost at leasr .5% per week on average. Some weeks were more, some were less. But overall, they lost .5% per week.

As for the cardio, it will have to be increased closer to contest. Possible 5 days a week in the AM, and 7 days PM. Since he is training naturally, it will be more difficult for him to lose those last few lbs of fat.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by redsquirrel
It is different, but not by much. People dieting from 10% down to 5% will be more challenging. However, it's harder for women to lose fat in general, and it is realistic for women naturally to lose that each week if their diet is what it needs to be. So, in my experience I think it is probable he will be able to do it.

Not a chance he'll get ot 5% without illicit drugs. You're talking a low, dangerous level of bodyfat. People who step on the stage at the Olympia are c. 4% and theyre on lasix, GH, DNP, etc. to lose fat, not even a clean diet and cardio can get one to 5% naturally.

[BBAddict]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Not a chance he'll get ot 5% without illicit drugs. You're talking a low, dangerous level of bodyfat. People who step on the stage at the Olympia are c. 4% and theyre on lasix, GH, DNP, etc. to lose fat, not even a clean diet and cardio can get one to 5% naturally.

YJ, in your opinion, what bf% is possible naturally?

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by BBAddict

Would taking test help lose fat? I have access to test, but I kinda don't want to take it cause my wife and I might try to have kids soon.

Is it normal to be much thirstier during dieting or is that just an effect of a lot of cardio and sweating?

Test will help you preserve muscle while you cut. That's basically the only role it will have in your precontest prep. As far as getting your wife pregnant, I've known several guys who have gotten their wives pregnant loaded to the gills. Just make sure your PCT is right and you get some HCG.

The thirstiness depends on how much sodium and water you are drinking. Use salt and seasoning as you normally would, but make sure you're drinking at least 1-1.5 gallons of water a day.

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Not a chance he'll get ot 5% without illicit drugs. You're talking a low, dangerous level of bodyfat. People who step on the stage at the Olympia are c. 4% and theyre on lasix, GH, DNP, etc. to lose fat, not even a clean diet and cardio can get one to 5% naturally.

Welll, I'm sorry you feel this way. I know from personal experience that it is possible, and it was possible for 2 females; who have a much harder time losing BF in general than men....let alone dieting for a contest.

It can be done naturally with cardio and diet. That is why the longer he diets, the more lean protein will have to be added to preserve the muscle and cardio to be increased to help lose the fat. He may not get to the 5% on the button, but he will be damn close. Especially after water and sodium manipulation the week before the show. And this can be done with or without the use of a diuretic with the same outcome.

As for the guys at the Olympia:

1- I seriously doubt none of them are on GH the day of the show, because GH causes some water retention.
2- Lasix and other diuretics are not natural per se, but they are also not AAS. Diuretics don't help people lose fat, they reduce water retention.

[YellowJacket]

Well, it depends on genetics, and obviously your body type (endo, meso, ecto). I certainly am not trying to discourage you from cutting down, and Id love to see you hit 5%, but honestly, its very very difficultm if not impossible without a perfect diet and obviously some illicit drugs. At 6 180, you're probably a meso/ecto, so you can get nito the single digits, but in reality, c. 7% is about as low as you can probably get, and this is with a perfect diet, and remember, this is without too much muscle wasting, because retaining muscle is really the key in cutting.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by redsquirrel
Welll, I'm sorry you feel this way. I know from personal experience that it is possible, and it was possible for 2 females; who have a much harder time losing BF in general than men....let alone dieting for a contest.

Thats fine. Hard to believe, but fine.

As for the guys at the Olympia:

1- I seriously doubt none of them are on GH the day of the show, because GH causes some water retention.

Im not talking about competiting, the day of the show, etc. Im talking about getting to 5% body fat and certainly GH plays a role in reducing body fat, especially abdominal adipose, which is difficult to cut due to its importance in survival.



2- Lasix and other diuretics are not natural per se, but they are also not AAS. Diuretics don't help people lose fat, they reduce water retention. [/B][/QUOTE] [/b][/quote]

Right and we all know, unfortunately, that water is factored into the equation of "not lean mass". Water weight is considered "fat" when body fat percentage is done.

5% wont be possible, thats all Im saying. Thats too low to be done with a diet and cardio. The body has a defense mechanism that kicks in, and without stimulants, thermogenics, etc. it is unattainable.

[BBAddict]

So, after the first week I lost about 4lbs! I certainly wasn't hoping to see that. Is it likely that it is all water weight due to cutting carbs out? I know I have been thirsty as hell all week but I don't know if that has an correlation to how much water my body is holding.

[redsquirrel]

A good portion of it is water that you lost. But, I'm sure you lost maybe 1lb of fat. That's why it's imperative that you do the caliper test each week to ensure you're not losing too much muscle.

YJ:

I thought you had said "the day of the show, the guys at the Olympia". Abdominal adipose is somewhat necessary for survival, but it is most prevalent in women. True most men holdit there, but the are not supposed to bear children; which is the main purpose a woman's body will take longer to rid itself of it.

As for his body type, it has very little to do with how much BF he will lose. Body type has to do with how and where you store your fat. The places where you have held it the longest will be the very last to go.

Also- water weight IS figured into lean mass, so that is also a moot point. When someone is taking AAS, portion of their wieght gain is due to water increase. That's why it appears (however superficial) that your BF is decreasing and lean mass is increasing.

BBAddict- you can and WILL lose the 5% needed for this show. It's definitely not nearly as unattainable and impossible as some are saying. As I stated before, I know severa FEMALES who have had NO problem losing it. The only thing I caution you about is, most people aren't able to lost it ALL the first time the do a contest diet. A smart thing to do is maybe do another show 3 weeks later to really come in hard as nails!

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by redsquirrel


YJ:

I thought you had said "the day of the show, the guys at the Olympia". Abdominal adipose is somewhat necessary for survival, but it is most prevalent in women. True most men holdit there, but the are not supposed to bear children; which is the main purpose a woman's body will take longer to rid itself of it.

Somewhat necessary for survivial?? How about completely necessary for survivial. Men are known to have more prominent adipose in the abdominal area than women. Women primarily hold their fat in the hips and glutes.

As for his body type, it has very little to do with how much BF he will lose. Body type has to do with how and where you store your fat. The places where you have held it the longest will be the very last to go.

Are you kidding me?? wow. So youre going to tell me an endo has a comparable metabolism as an ecto? IT is much easier for an ecto to shed excess body fat (to the point of having BF to survive) than an endo.

Also- water weight IS figured into lean mass, so that is also a moot point.

Incorrect, according to the NSCA and their body mass index and body comp. assessments, excess water weight is not lean mass, which makes sense when you think of a body fat analysis.

You can tell anyone all you want they can be 5% naturally, but it cant happen.

[BBAddict]

Thanks RS, I did an 8-point caliper test the day before I started and will continue to do it, as well as measurements of numerous body parts, weekly until 4/15. I was just concerned I was losing weight too fast and needed to tweak either the diet or the cardio.

[voneber]

BB... just out of curiousity, are you doing this for a comp or just to see how low you can go by 4/15?


V

[redsquirrel]

YJ- I refuse to debate with you on this topic any longer. I have documented experiences in this area and this is only giving BBAddict a negative vibe on the whole contest diet thing.; when we should be helping as much as possible. It's not fair to him, and I don't agree with most of what you've said because I know differently and can prove it.

BB- In the beginning you will have weeks that you lose what you did last week. As long as the calipers don't measure an enormous loss of muscle, continue on. You do know how to calculate your LBM after you've taken your BF readin, yes?

[BBAddict]

Originally posted by redsquirrel
BB- In the beginning you will have weeks that you lose what you did last week. As long as the calipers don't measure an enormous loss of muscle, continue on. You do know how to calculate your LBM after you've taken your BF readin, yes?

Yes RS, I do know how to calculate LBM. That's one of the calculations I have in my spreadsheet to monitor progress!

Thanks for your help and I'm glad you guys are gonna be done arguing-can't we all just get along?! I think some of these arguments are drawn out too long. It's clear that people have different opinions/beliefs and that's the way its gonna be sometimes and it's not worth the energy of arguing endlessly. On the other hand, you can't argue with results--I just hope that my results can match your experience with yourself and those you have trained!

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by redsquirrel
YJ- I refuse to debate with you on this topic any longer. I have documented experiences in this area and this is only giving BBAddict a negative vibe on the whole contest diet thing.; when we should be helping as much as possible. It's not fair to him, and I don't agree with most of what you've said because I know differently and can prove it.

Not a negative vibe, its called honesty. If you know differently and can prove it, then please do so. Ill wait...