The "Golden hour", well, almost

[Taylor]

i usually have 46g of whey protein (2 scoops)
sometimes mixed with gatorade but since i got choclate, it doesn't work right so i will just hvae another glass with gatorade, and i've gotten into a habit of eating a can of green beans cause their cheap, and i'm in college which = being poor

if i'm drinking the gatorade would i still need the dextrose?

and i've been taking swole v2 instead of creatine and they recommend taking it 10-12 hours apart and after a meal so i usually drink that right before i go to the gym, and then after dinner

[Shibby]

What year were you there? I think my wife was also there right after the big accident.

Umm, I guess that was in 99 I think.

[BBAddict]

I typically use a combination of dextrose and maltodextrin for the PWO carbs. From what I understand, maltodextrin helps with the uptake of the dextrose into the body. Any thoughts on using dextrose only versus maltodextrin and dextrose together?

[shortz]

Umm, I guess that was in 99 I think.

My wife must have been there before and then during the accident. She did all 8 years there.

[Shibby]

Oh, well I only went for a weekend at a time :party: :D

[Bouncer]

I typically use a combination of dextrose and maltodextrin for the PWO carbs. From what I understand, maltodextrin helps with the uptake of the dextrose into the body. Any thoughts on using dextrose only versus maltodextrin and dextrose together?

Im sure YJ would know. I have always used Dextrose alone. I am always willing to change things around though if perhaps something else works better.

[shortz]

Good question BBAddict. I am hoping someone knows this as well. Perhaps I can try to find an answer if YJ is not able to answer it.

[BBAddict]

Here is an interesting read from a guy advocating the use of both due to the way that malto and dextrose work together in the digestive process.

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine03/dextrose.htm

[YellowJacket]

Oh, I know I know.... to make a complicated story short, their positions on the GI index allow for the quick uptake of nutrients & creatine, while also providing a steady stream of glucose for glycogen recompensation in the muscle. I have several interesting studies and I can get into more detailed if anyone is interested...

[Bouncer]

Ok so if im currently running 50-60g of dextrose post workout, what would the correct ratio of malto/dex be for me? 50/50? So that would mean 25g Dex and 25 grams malto? thanks

[coffee-guy]

Oh, I know I know.... to make a complicated story short, their positions on the GI index allow for the quick uptake of nutrients & creatine, while also providing a steady stream of glucose for glycogen recompensation in the muscle. I have several interesting studies and I can get into more detailed if anyone is interested...

Post the studies bro - I enjoy reading that shit...

[BBAddict]

Ok so if im currently running 50-60g of dextrose post workout, what would the correct ratio of malto/dex be for me? 50/50? So that would mean 25g Dex and 25 grams malto? thanks

Thats about exactly what I do in my PWO shake with about 25gms of whey protein and then follow it up with a good solid meal in about an hour. For whatever reason, I'm freakin' hungry really soon after my PWO shake--I suppose the metabolism is just mowing through food after working out.

[YellowJacket]

Alright, I found some free time to 'adjust' your article. Please dont take this as disrespect or a slam, but theres quite a bit of inaccurate information within the article.....

It is constantly preached that PWO nutrition is the most important of the entire day, and it is. The original thought was that getting the nutrients you needed within an hour was sufficient for this anabolic time frame. The fact is, that an hour is ok if you are Joe Blow lifter.

After extensive research in the field of low GI carbs vs. high GI carbs and their effects on blood glucose levels and timing, I have consluded (as has many others) that pre-workout nutrition is just as, if not more, important than post workout nutrition. What Im getting at is the "golden window'" actually begins about 30 minutes pre-workout as opposed to the common misconception of post-workout. It is all too often preached on these boards (and quite inaccurate) that you should have some fruit pre-workout and then your post workout meal should be such and such amounts of whey and 50g or so of dextrose. Thats fine and well, but inevitably youre going to see better gains and quicker recovery from eating a low GI meal pre-workout, an amino acid mixture (albeit Xtend, Vendetta, or even just some whey) and then post workout consuming another whey/amino mixture with relatively low GI carbs, and possibly some malto. or even dextrose for the immediate insulin response, but remember, whey independently causes an insulin response, so a lot of high GI carbs are unnecessary.

Where the hell am I going with this? Well the low GI carbs pre and post workout give you a steady, balanced flow of energy and glucose for muscle glycogen recopensation. Pro's are the aforementioned steady stream of nutrients and less possibility for an excess fat gains.

Here is an abstract to confirm what Im getting at:

Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.

Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. [email protected]

The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

Again, many people are afraid to try this theory because its outside of the box. It's all too often preached on these boards that post workout dextrose is important, so thats what people do.... but Ive been doing the pre-workout low GI and post workout low GI and monderate high GI for some time now and it makes me sick that I didnt figure this out long ago.

Assuming that 15 minutes is 100% potential anabolic activity within the body, by 60 minutes, it has dropped by 30%. This "Golden" time frame is more like 15-30 minutes, after that, it drops off dramatically.

The window is technically always open, given youre providing your body with a steady flow of nutrients throughout the day and more so right around your training.

After just 2 hours, the insulin sensitivy is back to what is considered normal. This is why both carbs and protein are vital at this time, especially a faster absorbing carb like dextrose.

Untrue, based on the data above. The window can be 'held open' with a proper pre-workout meal. Its not that dextrose is fast absorbing, its more so that its a simple GI and causes a greater insulin response, which you may or may not want. Id much rather consume low GI carbs pre and post workout with minor high GI carbs and accomplish the same results (if not better) and avoid the excess fat gain and the excess insulin response.

What nutrients are recommended for best results? From a compilation of studies on an athlete 200lbs...

I wouldnt mind seeing these studies.

15g+ of whey

Although I agree that amounts of whey are overrated, especially on these boards, for novice weight trainers like 90% of board members are, obviously 15g is no where near enough.

40g dextrose

Ive touched on this....

1-2g of Leucine

I agree that Leucine is an above average supplement, and HMB, a very popular supplement is a metabolite of leucine. With that said, youre not going to see much with 2g of leucine. I use studies done on HMB to conclude that at least 3g, probably more, of leucine is needed to achieve results. Also, I like the idea of leucine combined with creatine. It has been shown they work in synergy with one another.

1-2g Glutamine

Glutamine is useless to the weight training adult. 2g of glutamine will not make it past the splanic bed in the GI system. Also, remember that oral administration of non essential amino acids are merely stripped down and used for the synthesis of any other amino acid that is needed.... and we will not even go into gluconeogenesis.

Vitamin C 60-120mg

Id up this to around 500mg-1000mg if youre using it for its cortisol suppressing effects.

[iceberg]

This has been a very interesting post. I was always under the impression that the window was 1-2 hours.

The only issue that I have is the 15+g protein. I think that it is much higher.

I always have a shake right after my workout at the gym, and I have read and verified with my own body that I can take in as much as 100G protein with this shake.

Any other time of day and I can only take in up to 60g without messing up my digestive system.

ICEberg

[BBAddict]

I have consluded (as has many others) that pre-workout nutrition is just as, if not more, important than post workout nutrition. What Im getting at is the "golden window'" actually begins about 30 minutes

Great point. I always consume low GI carbs pre-workout at the risk of crashing in the middle of a workout--I also believe that this is just as important as the post-workout nutrition. Realistically, you want energy for the muscles during workout and immediately post-workout which you will not have if you don't have the proper pre-workout nutrition. The post-workout nutrition just makes sure that you continue feeding the muscles after they are torn down. As far as post-workout, I still usually do high GI cause I have absolutely no fear of gaining weight (hanging around 6% and can't budge!)so I do high GI followed by low GI within an hour. I definetly think that rolled oats with some dextrose (low GI with some high GI) is better for those concerned with bf%.