Non AS Diet - beginner in need of help

[GreyingWolf]

38 yeats old
99 kg (lost 4kg last week)
6'5"
Goal is to loose the flab and build reasonable muscle - would like to be 8% BF at 100kg in 6 months
Would prefer to loose the fat first then gradually build up.
Did a light 12 week course of AS in 93 - put on 20kg lean (70kg to 90kg)
Over last 18 years, lost a lot of muscle and gained a lot of fat - topped at 110 mid last year
Got a PT beginning of December for fitness. Ate healthy (3 meals a day cereal and salad sandwich healty, not BB healthy). Christmas and holiday blew it out a bit, but now want to go a little mor intense this year.
Was considering HGH or GHRP-6 (2 ui daily) plus maybe TRT dose of 250mg weekly, buy decided against it until I see what I can do without the help.

Got to say its going really well to date on the diet below, but Im a begginer so I could be screwing some parts up.


Cardio Days (Mon, Wed, Fri)
7:00am 50g 100% Whey Isolate shake 2xFatburner Creatine 6g amino blend 4g
7:30am 45 mins LI Cardio
8:15am Shake with strawberries or blue berries – 2000mg fish oil
11:15 95g tin of tuna in sunflower oil, chilli and garlic, 2 poached eggs brown rice
2:30 chicken breast, brocilli, peas, red beans, brown rice, oyster sauce stir fry
6:00 chicken breast, brown rice
9:00 50g 100% Whey Isolate shake Creatine 6g amino blend 4g

Training Days (Tues, Thu, Sat)
7:00am 25g 100% Whey Isolate shake 2xFatburner 100g lean red meat, brown rice
7:30am Jack3d Creatine 6g amino blend 4g
8:00am Train
9:00am 50g 100% Whey Isolate shake with strawberries or blue berries 2000mg fish oil Creatine 6g amino blend 4g
11:15 95g tin of tuna in sunflower oil, chilli and garlic, 2 poached eggs brown rice
2:30 chicken breast, brocilli, peas, red beans, brown rice, oyster sauce stir fry
6:00 chicken breast, brown rice
9:00 50g 100% Whey Isolate shake

Training is Tues - chest, shoulders, tris. Thurs - Back, Traps, Bi's. Sat - Legs

Supplements are:

100% Whey Protein Isolates (ON)
Jack3ed (USPlabs)
Anabolic Switch (Creatine) (MRI)
Creatine Mono hydrate (Evolve Nutrition)
Inferno (Fatburner) (Nutrabolics)

[jack tors]

diets not too bad bro

post workout shake not needed on cardio days, if you like doing cardio on empty stomach in that case have the shake aftwards. i wouldnt do both... have a meal instead.

the post workout shake should have 8-16oz of juice, wazy maize, or malto carb source in it not just berries (i like 100% concord grape juice). add the creatine 5g to PWO shake not pre workout.

add 2g of fish oil to 6:00 meal. if you want drop the brown rice from this meal and add 7:30pm snack - 3/4c shredded wheat in skim milk or high fiber snack.

9:00pm meal should be casein (cottage cheese) or a protein power blend (egg, casein, whey) at least. whey Isolate is not slow digesting protein. eat 2 whole eggs and 5 whites instead if you can stomach cc.

i would try to get in a few more veggies but your much better than most.

take the jack3d and inferno everyday... unless its too much for you.

training - i would probably train w/ w8ts 4 x a week. when they overlap do cardio AM, weights PM? high intensity 12-20 rep range. shorter than 2mins between sets. abs almost everyday.

cardio - fine (maybe up to 1 hr?). i would add abs training b4 cardio - 30mins - hit it hard really focus on this you will reach your goal if you do.

[GreyingWolf]

Wow Jack Tor, I really appreciated the in depth feedback:thumup:. Ill redo diet to make sure I got all the changes and repost. Would you mind double checking for me?

A few assumptions Im making:
FishOil at 6:00 is 6pm
Abs before cardio is 30 mins abs, then 1hr cardio? that might be a little long for my schedule (3 kids, work etc) - might do 20 mins abs, 40 cardio?
Its EITHER juice, waxy maize or malto carb - not all 3 or 2.
9pm meal - Id prefer something I could mix up as my wife goes to bed early and I never clean up after cooking. I will have to order some caesin. In the mean time, would 25g Whey + 5 egg whites + 2 egg yokes + fibre be good enough?

Thanks again and Ill repost diet tomorrow once Ive finished the changes.

[jack tors]

FishOil at 6:00 is 6pm

6pm

Abs before cardio is 30 mins abs, then 1hr cardio? that might be a little long for my schedule (3 kids, work etc) - might do 20 mins abs, 40 cardio?

I'd split it 30mins of abs / 30 mins cardio unless your metabolism is horrible then focus more on cardio. your not goin to b able to do it at first work up to it 30mins start with 10, 20, 30.

Its EITHER juice, waxy maize or maltodextrin carb - not all 3 or 2.

Just 1 you can buy maltodextrin and waxy maize as powder add them to your shake or just go with juice. It should b a 2:1 carb protein ratio. with a fast absorbing carb source which berries are not.
Bodybuilding.com - Post-Workout Carbs: Best Choices To Grow & Recover! - Jim Brewster

9pm meal - Id prefer something I could mix up as my wife goes to bed early and I never clean up after cooking. I will have to order some caesin. In the mean time, would 25g Whey + 5 egg whites + 2 egg yokes + fibre be good enough?

thats good. I'd drop the whey unless you skipped a meal during the day.

[Mr I]

Good advice JT

[GreyingWolf]

Quicky

Thanks again Jack Tors.

Ive picked up some wazy maize and am having 50g of it plus 25g whey plus creatine and Amino acids PWO.

Got some Casein (Evolve Nutrician). Haveing 2 scoops with milk before bed it has a few differant types of Casein in it - according to shop keeper it each has differant release time frame.

Have cut out brown rice after 1.30pm meal.

Have another little issue now. I think I might be putting in too many "meals" in the morning on W8t training days.

630 - 50g whey + 2xInferno + 2xMultivitimens
730 - 125g lean red meat + cup brown rice
750 - WO
850 - PWO shake (as above)
1030 - tin tuna in Olive Oil and chilli over cup brown rice
130p - as above or breast instead of tuna
430p - 12 pieces sushimi (salmon or mixed)
730p - chicken breast with 2 poached eggs + 2g fish oil
1000p - Casein shake

Im kinda doing 9 meals, but if you take out morning, PWO and nighttime shakes, its 6 real meals. Seems excessive.

Also, on the training front. Ive dropped PT and just using Gym PT. He has put me on 3 day cycle, and cut out all support excercises to the "big 6" as he calls them, until I reach a strength level appropriate for my body weight. Sound logical to me, but I would appreciate feedback (I know this really should be in traing section, but since ive already speeled out Diet, Goals and Details here - seems a waste to start another thread).

Traning is now:

Day 1
500m row WU
Chest BP - 1 WU set - 4 sets of 8 (or til failure on last 2 or up weight next time)
Shoulders DB Press - 1 WU set - 3 sets of 8 (or til failure on last 2 or up weight next time)
Triceps PD - 1 WU set - 3 sets of 8 (or til failure on last 2 sets or up weight next time)
Abs

Day 2
500m row WU
Legs Squats (rotating with deadlifts every 2nd WO) - 1 WU set - 4 sets of 8 (or til failure on last 2 or up weight next time)
Back Trainer aided Chin ups - 1 WU set on lat PD - 3 sets of 8 (or til failure and need aid)
Biceps Standing BB curls - 1 WU set - 3 sets of 8 (or til failure on last 2 sets or up weight next time)
Abs

Day 3
30 - 45 mins cardio (row, bike, arm bike thing!)
Abs

Nice and simple. I do the cycle twice a week.

[GreyingWolf]

Update

Weighed in this morning at 95kg. Keeping to diet and training, but have cut out carbs on non lifting days, and only meals before and after training on lifting days(and waxy maze shake after training). Runing 5 kms on cardio days.

Got blood tests back today. Everything normal except kidney function 116 (norm 50 - 110), very low cholesterol 2.8 (norm is 4 - 5.5) - I thought this would be a good thing, but the doc seemed not so happy and wait for it... Low Testosterone 5 (norm is 15 - 30). This can't be the best for my training. Got a referral to endo - will see how that goes - hopefully it ends in script.

[jack tors]

Keeping to diet and training, but have cut out carbs on non lifting days, and only meals before and after training on lifting days(and waxy maze shake after training). Runing 5 kms on cardio days.

I dont think cutting all carbs is good especially if you dont know what your doing. I would just drop them in the PM everyday instead. Center them around your training pre and post. cuz if you do that your body has to use something for fuel it will use muslce first....u want it to use fat for fuel. You need to up the fhealthy fats big time- fish, flax, & olive oil, (add 2g per meal). You should post up your no-carb diet.

"only meals before and after training on lifting days(and waxy maze shake after training)" - I have no idea what the hell that mean? explain?

I dont really like the routine or understand it very much but if your liking it stick with it. Can you break it down into days of the week? Is it every 3 day cardio then it repeats... confusing.

[GreyingWolf]

Hi Jac Tor

Current Lifting days are Mon, Tue, Thur, Fri
Diet on these days is:

6:45am 2xscoops 100% Whey Isolate shake 2xInferno, 2xMultivitimans
7:00am 100g lean red meat with 1 cup brown rice (or spagetti bolognase)
7:45am Jack3d 1.5 scoops
8:00am Train
9:00am PWO 1xscoop Whey 2.5 scoops waxy maze 5g creatine mono
10:30am chicken breast with brown rice
1:30pm salmon sushimi (approx 150g) or 95g tin of tuna in olive oil, chilli and garlic, green beans
5:00 chicken breast and green vegetables
7:00 chicken breast, 2xeggs, green salad or vegetables, 3000mg Fish Oil
9:30 Casein Blend with non fat milk

Cardio Days Wed, Sat
7:00am 2xInferno, 2xMultivitiman Jack3d 1.5
7:15am Train
8:15am 2xscoops whey 5g creatine mono
10:30 chicken breast w/green vegetables
1:30 salmon sushimi (approx 150g) or 95g tin of tuna in olive oil, chilli and garlic, green beans
5:00 chicken breast and green vegetables
7:00 chicken breast, 2xeggs, green salad or vegetables, 3000mg Fish Oil
9:30 Casein Blend with non fat milk

Routine is 3 day rotation of Day1: Chest, Shoulders, Tri's - Day2: Legs, Back, Bi's - Day3: Cardio (sunday off) abs every day.

Im enjoying this fat coming off and have a bit to go (lower abs and lower back). I woke up this morning at 94.2 kgs - lightest I have been in 12 years! Id like to get the rest of this fat off quick. I know it will be a long haul getting lean muscle back on, but as I dont care about getting HUGE, I'm hoping to put it on without adding too much BF.

Ive upgraded goals to 110kg lean after seeing how "bean pole" like I am going to be at 90kg.

Thanks for your help to date.

Regarding 2 teaspoons olive oil. every meal?, or the non carb, non fish or fishoil meals.

Also, happy to rejig this. Not married to any diet or training regime, thats why I am posting and asking for feedback.

PS had my first "cheat" today which was 4 course lunch over 2 hrs with 1/2 bottle of pinot. Cant get away from some business lunch's, cant even nurse 1/2 glass of wine for the whole meal when its one on one - so I just thought "Fuck It - Enjoy It!"

[Bouncer]

one thing i will point out.

it looks like you try pretty hard to avoid carbs only to consume carbs, (sugar) in the form of milk at the worst possible time, your last meal of the day.

skip the milk and use water.

[GreyingWolf]

Carbs in MILK!:pissed: those little fuckers are everywhere.

[GreyingWolf]

I dont think cutting all carbs is good especially if you dont know what your doing. I would just drop them in the PM everyday instead. Center them around your training pre and post. cuz if you do that your body has to use something for fuel it will use muslce first....u want it to use fat for fuel. You need to up the fhealthy fats big time- fish, flax, & olive oil, (add 2g per meal). You should post up your no-carb diet.

So does that mean I should keep to no carb after PWO Shake on lifting days and on cardio days if I eat 2g per meal of fish, flax and olive oil (all or 1?)? Increasing the healthy fats will cause fat to burn for fuel? If so, should I keep Cardio heart rate to 70% (I have read this in a few places but am not sure if this applies).

If I am reintroducing Carbs on Cardio days, do I have PWO shake with 2 scopes Waxy + 1 scoop Whey?

Thanks in advance

[jack tors]

diet is looking good bro :thumup:

Hi Jac Tor

Current Lifting days are Mon, Tue, Thur, Fri
Diet on these days is:

6:45am 2xscoops 100% Whey Isolate shake 2xInferno, 2xMultivitimans - why 2 multi's? add the second at bedtime if you have too
7:00am 100g lean red meat with 1 cup brown rice (or spagetti bolognese)
7:45am Jack3d 1.5 scoops does it work that fast for you, id drink it at least 1/2 hr b4 i train
8:00am Train
9:00am PWO 1xscoop Whey 2.5 scoops waxy maze 5g creatine mono you should up this to 2scoops, this is a critical period, also needs to be 2:1 carb/protien ratio
10:30am chicken breast with brown rice
1:30pm salmon sushimi (approx 150g) or 95g tin of tuna in olive oil, chilli and garlic, green beans add 2000mg fish or flax oil
5:00 chicken breast and green vegetables
7:00 chicken breast, 2xeggs, green salad or vegetables, 3000mg Fish Oil I dont think you need the eggs but its fine
9:30 Casein Blend with non fat milk Casein blend? I prefer cottage cheese if you want add 2 eggs

Cardio Days Wed, Sat
7:00am 2xInferno, 2xMultivitiman same as before why 2 multi's Jack3d 1.5
7:15am Train
8:15am 2xscoops whey 5g creatine mono
10:30 chicken breast w/green vegetables 2000mg fish or flax oil
1:30 salmon sushimi (approx 150g) or 95g tin of tuna in olive oil, chilli and garlic, green beans
5:00 chicken breast and green vegetables
7:00 chicken breast, 2xeggs, green salad or vegetables, 3000mg Fish Oil
9:30 Casein Blend with non fat milk add 2nd multi, i assume it has zinc, vit D,E, calcium?

Routine is 3 day rotation of Day1: Chest, Shoulders, Tri's - Day2: Legs, Back, Bi's - Day3: Cardio (sunday off) abs every day. id do the abs 4-5 days a week and really focus on it, this will really make a difference

Regarding 2 teaspoons olive oil. every meal?, or the non carb, non fish or fishoil meals. no olive oil right now, 1 tbsp is like 200kals unless your calories are low that day

PS had my first "cheat" today which was 4 course lunch over 2 hrs with 1/2 bottle of pinot. Cant get away from some business lunch's, cant even nurse 1/2 glass of wine for the whole meal when its one on one - so I just thought "Fuck It - Enjoy It!" yes cheat meal every week is important. if you dont your body will adapt to this type of diet and it will no longer be effective in fat lose, drink a gallon of water a day

[GreyingWolf]

Thanks Jack Tor, you are a legend.

Just been prescribed reandron 1000 for test defficiancy with one repeat. I think I dropped the first one on the tiles last night and it "broke", so ill get the 2nd filled today and take it top the doc and he will jab me all int one hit (according to data sheet). Assuming he plans on jabbing me again in 6 weeks, if the broken vial turned up and I jabbed it at the 3 week mark, that would mean 3000mg of Slooooow ester over 6 weeks, which should last another 4 ontop at reasonable levels. Thoughts anyone? Bearing in mind the dr is going to want to jab me and I will have tests 2 - 3 weeks after first jab.

Hoping this will bring levels a bit higher than normal to get some gain out of the work to date.

[GreyingWolf]

Update

Kepping to diet and training.
Weighing in at 96 - 97kg steady for tha last week or so.
BF floats between 11 - 14% using 3 point calliper test (chest 5-8mm, stomach 25 - 30mm, leg6 - 9mm). Beginning of Jan I was 20 - 22%.
Not sure if I'm doing calliper measurements right, but I assume if I'm consistant either right or wrong, the measurement change will reflect progress.
Arms hit 15".
Deadlifts have gone from workinf weight of 60kg to 110kg
Deep squats 40kg - 70kg
DB shoulder press 10kg - 15kg
Bench 40kg - 60kg
Barbell curls 17.5kg to 30kg
TriPD 22kg - 34.25kg
Chin ups - all aided to 5,4,4 unaided and remaining to 8 aided.

Feeling great. Just ate 3kg approx of yum cha for cheat meal - topped off with fried ice cream (the only truely bad thing in the cheat meal).

Thanks for all the help guys.

Will keep you posted.
GW