Calling on the vets...again

[Shibby]

Originally posted by Viral
Chill out with the "owned" comments ect. For all we know u woulda chose his side if u had any say in the argument. The fact that his opinion/knowledge he thought he had aquired was possibly (Most likely) incorrect make him not a human? Wrong it makes him a prime example ;) We all make mistakes, especially with all the bad Info that floats around the whole world.

Who are you?

It asked for it by laughing at him.

[YellowJacket]

Jesus, will everyone please change their tampons and calm down?

[spidey]

Originally posted by Viral
Anyway Spidey seeing now that u have come out with a little more show of what knowledge you have, Im intersted to learn about M1T in the forms of its androgenic/anabolic state, and as to if it being methylated changes it for better/adverse effects. Obviously it helps the bioavailablity making for better gains at lower doses of 1-test, but how does it change the state of the 1-testosterone. I noticed u stated it IS a different AAS so it is obviously still an Anabolic Steroid methylated or not, but Im just curious as to how much it changes. I always love to ask questions and learn as much as I can when I find someone with knowledge of value.

Methylating the steroid changes it's 3-dimensional shape. Steroids fit into the various receptors like pieces in a jig-saw puzzle. If you change the shape of the steroid, you change the way it fits into the receptors. In general, 17-methylation decreases binding to the androgen receptor so (in general) 17-alkylated steroids are less androgenic than their non-alkylated counterparts. The effects of alkylation on anabolism seems less defined. It does change it but sometimes it is more anabolic and sometimes it is less.

A prime example is test vs. methyltest. As you know, test is more anabolic. Methyltest is only slightly less androgenic than test; nearly equal in fact so it appears to be an exception to the rule that 17-alkylation decreases androgenicity.

I only have one paper on hand that gives some measure and comparison of androgenic and anabolic properties of 1-test and M1T. The data indicates M1T to be 4 times less androgenic and 4 times less anabolic than 1-test but there is a caveot. Both hormones were injected IM in mice to get these measurements. The problem is that 17-alkylated steroids almost always do better when dosed orally than when injected so a more realistic measure would have been to give the M1T orally and inject the 1-test. I believe I have read other papers that attach a better anabolic/androgenic ratio to M1T then 1-test.

[Viral]

Hey thats some interesting info.

Im trying to break it down, so in an anabolic state 1-testosterone alone is more androgenic/anabolic than when it is methylated, but ppl are getting better results off M1T due to the fact it IS methylated and the body is recieving/using more of the m1t than compared when someone used 1-test or 1-ad much of it is broken down/not used.

Just curious, and thnx for the post.

[DJAngelicon]

Good lord this is great, I must take note here now. :D

[spidey]

Originally posted by Viral
Hey thats some interesting info.

Im trying to break it down, so in an anabolic state 1-testosterone alone is more androgenic/anabolic than when it is methylated, but ppl are getting better results off M1T due to the fact it IS methylated and the body is recieving/using more of the m1t than compared when someone used 1-test or 1-ad much of it is broken down/not used.

Just curious, and thnx for the post.

1-Test is likely to be more androgenic but I think the jury is still out as to which is more anabolic when taken in the most efficient way (oral for M1T or IM injection for 1-test).

People are getting better results from oral M1T then they are with oral 1-test just because of the bioavailability issue. The 17-methyl of M1T protects it from liver degradation while most of the 1-test gets chewed up. The 17-methyl also makes M1T pretty damn liver toxic though; worse than any other AAS I know of besides maybe miberolone or metribolone.

[shortz]

This really turned into an informative thread. With your permission, I would like to post this info on AF with your name in referance.

[spidey]

Sure, go ahead.

[vicmack777]

Originally posted by spidey
I find persistant ignorance to be very irritating. Not splitting hairs, just stating fact.

Look, I do have a Ph.D. in chemistry. You are unlikely to be able to teach me anything about the chemistry of steroids. Yes, cholesterol is a steroid, but not an anabolic steroid. It is in a different class so your analogy is flawed. I haven't heard about anyone using prednisone or dexymethasone in cycles either but then they are cortico-steroids, not androgenic steroids so that wouldn't make much sense.

Yes, 1-test absolutely is an AAS. It is a steroid (a chemical class). It does bind the androgen receptor (three times better than normal test actually) so it is an androgen by definition. It does have myotropic activity (again, greater than that of normal test); therefore it is anabolic. So let's see... It is androgenic and anabolic and it is a steroid....Yep, it fits into the description of an anabolic/androgenic steroid (AAS). In fact, it is a more potent AAS than normal testosterone. If you like, I can provide you with references from peer reviewed scientific journals (not self-serving muscle mags) to verify everything I have written.

What exactly makes 1-test not a "real AAS" in your mind? It's legal status? That is fixing to change. When it is as illegal as the others will it be a "real AAS" then? You people crack me up.

Is it the fact that when taken orally, it sucks? Well, eat your deca or test cyp and see how your gains are, LOL. It's a bioavailability problem. Since it has no 17-alkyl to protect it from liver oxidation, bioavailability is probably 20% or less. The same problem would be seen with ANY AAS without a 17-alkyl group. That's the major reason oral primo sucks. Is primobolin acetate not a "real AAS"?

All AAS are just chemical derivatives of testosterone to begin with. Add a 1,2 double bond to test and you have boldenone. Add a 17-methyl to boldenone and you have dbol. Take away the 4,5 double bond from dbol and you have M1T. Take away the 4,5 double bond from boldenone and you have 1-test. Add a 1-methyl to 1-test and you have primo. Take away the 1,2 double bond from primo and you have proviron. Get it? It's all just chemical manipulation of test to produce analogs with different anabolic and androgenic properties. So, you think 1-test is not an AAS but if you just add a methyl group on the 1 position, that IS an AAS, right? :rofl: Do you not see how silly that is?

BTW, Methyl 1-test does have a 17-methyl so the oral bioavailability problem is solved. The 17-methyl also changes it's androgenic and anabolic profile so it is really a totally different AAS than 1-test so comparing the two isn't really appropriate (except in a legal sense).

Im not even going to discuss this further with you if your going to start it by calling me ignorant. Nobody likes internet tough guys. Why dont you post about 1-test in the AAS section then?

[vicmack777]

I just read the rest of this, and I think you guys misunderstood my point. Technically 1-test is a steroid because it doesnt undergo conversion but my point is who really calls it an AAS. Its considered a PH to me.

[Doom]

Originally posted by vicmack777
Im not even going to discuss this further with you if your going to start it by calling me ignorant. Nobody likes internet tough guys. Why dont you post about 1-test in the AAS section then?

I dont see where hes calling you ignorant, I see wheres hes breaking this down to its bare chemical nature...I think you might just be pissed that he schooled you on the subject

[vicmack777]

Originally posted by Doom
I dont see where hes calling you ignorant, I see wheres hes breaking this down to its bare chemical nature...I think you might just be pissed that he schooled you on the subject

:hmm:

"I find persistant ignorance to be very irritating. Not splitting hairs, just stating fact. "

Just quoted him. Its no big deal, but reading comprehension is key.

[spidey]

Originally posted by vicmack777
Im not even going to discuss this further with you if your going to start it by calling me ignorant. Nobody likes internet tough guys. Why dont you post about 1-test in the AAS section then?

No one likes to be laughed at either; especially when they are right so I guess we're even.

I ask again: What makes 1-test less than an AAS in your mind? I find that curious since it is both more androgenic and more anabolic than (almost) everyone's favorite AAS, test.

As for posting in the anabolic section, it has been talked about in that section but that section is normally reserved for discussions about illegal AAS. Since 1-test is legal (currently anyway), it is normally discussed in the section with all the other legal alternatives, this one.

[Viral]

Spidey, I believe the last paragraph is exactly why Vick sees it as a PH. I think he understands chemically it is a AAS, but if u were to talk about it with someone, discuss it, use a word for it, PH will have to do because that is the way its sold. To some ppl, by "street" terms 1-test isnt an AAS because its not illegal, so they call it a PH.

Its no big deal, I think we gained some valuable info with a few misunderstandings in between =P

[vicmack777]

Originally posted by Viral
Spidey, I believe the last paragraph is exactly why Vick sees it as a PH. I think he understands chemically it is a AAS, but if u were to talk about it with someone, discuss it, use a word for it, PH will have to do because that is the way its sold. To some ppl, by "street" terms 1-test isnt an AAS because its not illegal, so they call it a PH.

Its no big deal, I think we gained some valuable info with a few misunderstandings in between =P

Couldnt have said it better myself.

BTW....Spidey, I wasnt laughing at you, I was laughing at myself with the comment about cholesterol. Not at you.