First pro hormone cycle, seeking advice.

[PGFDRAM]

I am new to this forum, and I think it's great. I have been weight lifting for 2-3 years, have used creatine and protein with some good results. I am thinking about taking the next step and trying a PH cycle, specifically 1AD & 4AD for 4 weeks followed by 6oxo for 4 weeks, I would like to continue with the creatine and plan to use some protein supplementation.
I am 38, weigh around 230, with around 20% BF. I am a fulltime firefighter and workout 4 to 5 times a week. This will be my first experience with PH and I would like to know what you think, and any advice you have on the cycle as to length and dosage and preventative for side effect. I have been reading about this for months and my head is spinning.

Thanks in advance
PGFDRAM

[MassMonster]

Nice to hear someone my age starting PH I just ordered a bottle of nordiol never did them before im 37 yrs old , never taken anything other than protien or creatine , anyone have any thought on this ph???

[Aurora]

I tried the LMR sports Nandrovar/Equilone stack with FANTASTIC results!!! (basically 19 nordiol/nordione with 1,4 ad. The only sides were some shoulder acne.

Just amazing stuff!!

Craaaazy strength gains, perma pump, hardness. Highly recommended.

No Im not a rep or anything, just a satisfied customer. PM me if you want more details on what I did. Im a girl btw.

www.lmrsports.com

[bigmanoncampus]

Do not take creatine during a cycle of PH's, save it for the PCT. Keep reading;

Creatine will help you retain any gains from the PHs and assist in reducing the risk of muscular atrophy. Creatine like most supplements (minus protein and others like) need to be cycled as your body will become used to it. The less prone to it you are the better your results when taking it ... kind of like ibuprofen or painkillers. Don't take the creatine while on your 4 week cycle and save it for PCT (or post PCT); this is when muscular atrophy is most likely to occur. It will in the end give you better results post PH's/PCT and you will retain your gains longer.

I also recommend start taking Milk Thistle post cycle to strengthen up your liver, take them while on your PH's as well.

-----Since no replied to your question:
Week 1 300MG's a day 1AD, 600MG's 4AD (just testing the water, low dosages)
Week 2, 3, 4 600MG's a day 1AD, 900MG's 4AD.
PCT -- You could probably run 400MG's the first week, 300MG's the seconds and 200MG's the last two weeks.

Take your PH's in a 2x day split, once in the AM on the empty stomach and 30 minutes pre workout. The 6oxo is good before bed.

Hope this helps,
BigC

[r_deese]

Stepping into PHs eh... should be fun. Here's a good outline to follow...

Week1-4: 600mg 1ad, 900mg 4ad unless u plan on running transdermal 4ad... if u do, u can lower that dosage to 600mg and be fine or better off.
You can start with the lower dosage as suggested above... but after a week u likely won't see much difference and u'll end up goig to the high dose anyway ( so why not start high and wait on it to kick in?)
PCT:
6-oxo, tribulus, possibly ZMA
Week1: 600mg 6-oxo, 1250mg Trib (most come in 625mg caps), depends on brand of ZMA as to how much
Week2: 400mg 6oxo, 1250mg trib, zma
Week3: 200mg 6oxo, 1250mg trib, zma
Week4: 100mg 6oxo, 1250mg trib, zma

Note: All PCT should be taken either with your latest meal or shortly before bed, as your highest amount of test is created at night.
Milk thistle can be taken, but from what I've seen, it doesn't help anything to take it while on cycle b/c it's used to help your liver recover... and if you're taking PHs orally everyday, there can't be any recovery even w/ help from the stuff, so supplement it before and after your cycle @ 2g per day.
Keep some hawthorne berry around just in case your blood pressure rises significantly.
You can take creatine on cycle, but it'll just bloat you up. As far as your "possible" protein supplementation... if you don't get 1.5g of protein per pound of your body weight while you're on cycle, don't even bother doing a cycle b/c u won't grow like you should. Keep your calories high and GROW GROW GROW.
Hope that helps some.

Best of luck bro

[r_deese]

Originally posted by MassMonster
Nice to hear someone my age starting PH I just ordered a bottle of nordiol never did them before im 37 yrs old , never taken anything other than protien or creatine , anyone have any thought on this ph???

Nordiol is a "safe" PH to take, side effects are minimal, but the gains aren't that big either.... better to stack nordiol w/ 4ad IMO

[Viral]

Deese gave u all the info u need, a gr8 beginner PH, But 2 things:

Creatine, for most ppl, is a year round thing as it has been shown to be one of the least harmful supplements besides protein, water and food ;)

Also, USE PROTEIN. Get TONS of it, eat it in ur meals, take shakes, just make sure u get 1-2g of protein per pound of bodyweight. This will defineatly help ur gains and is something all seriouse weightlifters/bodybuilders follow as a basic.

[bigmanoncampus]

Just because it is harmless does not mean you should not cycle it. For better results you should cycle it. There may be no evidence on paper but it's worked for me, and people I have trained with.

[bigmanoncampus]

OK, I just found this on another forum.

Here is a quote from Icex999:

"Your body has an internal equilibrium which you can swing in your favor for a duration of time, but over time that equilibrium will eventually swing back.
Meaning taking excess creatine for a short period of time (4-8 weeks) may temporarily increase your creatine phosphate stores but after awhile your body's feedback mechanisms will likely place some time of control on creatine phosphate storage to bring the levels back down to normal. This mechanism may be to decrease your body's own production of creatine or to downgrade the number receptors that admit creatine into the cell. Taking time off from creatine can help bring your body's equilibrium back into a state where in taking excess creatine will be beneficial again. I would like to make clear at this point that I know of no studies to back this theory up with, it could be right or wrong, I am just merely applying my knowledge of biochemistry to a frequently asked question to which there is no good answer to yet."

[spidey]

I have never seen any evidence (scientific or ancedotal) that negative feedback occurs with creatine use. The only reason I can think of to cycle on and off creatine is that it can be hard on your kidneys and so you might want to give them a break every once in a while.

Personally, I would suggest creatine year around. If you ever see a study contradicting that, I may change my tune but not before.

[Viral]

Originally posted by bigmanoncampus
Just because it is harmless does not mean you should not cycle it. For better results you should cycle it. There may be no evidence on paper but it's worked for me, and people I have trained with.

It worked for u and a few friends. That versus studies, and millions of ppl worldwide. Take ur pic.

But hey, whatever works for you. I do occasionaly cycle off creatine, but only every few months or so cause it IS nice to give my kidneys some room to breathe ;)