Why the "A" in ECA is bad-By str8flexed

[lovetoeat]

BTW, ephedrine/ephedra's positive effects on fat loss far out weigh the negatives, there are many, many studies that show this.

[Cory]

Originally posted by lovetoeat
You do realize exercise raises cortisol levels?

Yes I do realize this, but the studies show that cortisol's negative effects on the body due to exercise, are not that much of a concern unless you are over 35. There was an article in the last issue of iron man explaining this and what can be done to help the situation if you are an older body builder.

[Cory]

Originally posted by lovetoeat
BTW, ephedrine/ephedra's positive effects on fat loss far out weigh the negatives, there are many, many studies that show this.

you are right, if the dosage is followed correctly and you give your body a rest from it periodically, then they definately will burn fat very well. The problem is prolonged use and people taking more than the recommended dosage to keep that "up" feeling. It's a stimulant, so eventually the body will develop a tolerance and you won't feel them like you did when you first started using them. That's why people fall into that trap of "needing" them just to get enough energy to train. They fry their adrenals and feel like total shit when they don't have them. I have worked with so many ephedra junkies that want to go to a non-stimulant because they always feel like shit without it and I have to gradually ramp down their dosages and make them drink coffee and then I can slowly start introducing other things like CLA for instance and when they come back to me a few months later they feel so much better, because they are relying on their own natural raw energy...sorry, but central nervous system stimulants suck and are not healthy for the body.
eating properly, getting enough rest, and training hard will give you more than adaquate energy to do whatever you want.

[prolangtum]

CLA is a waste of money IMO.

[Cory]

you should visit the site of the only company that holds the patents on the "real" CLA that actually does work...www.clarinol.com

There have been many clinical studies to prove that the clarinol form of CLA burns fat and builds lean muscle tissue and also enhances cardiovascular health, supports healthy cholesterol levels, promotes healthy immune function and has been used for cancer treatment, and is a great antioxidant. Even if I didn't have to lose any body fat, there is no way I would not be taking it.

[prolangtum]

Ive taken Tonalin CLA, in order to use that name, any company must buy from them. Im aware of the studies, but I can also throw out a few studies disputing it too, as there is always a study disputing something, no matter what the supplement is.

[prolangtum]

This was posted by Rober Thoburn a while back on avant:

Will CLA only help the already-very-fat?

Linda Granlund is a PhD student at the University of Oslo. She participated in the recent conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) study published in the Journal of Lipid Research (Granlund et al. (2003) Trans10, cis12 conjugated linoleic acid prevents triacylglycerol accumulation in adipocytes by acting as a PPARgamma modulator. J Lipid Res, May 16. Ahead of publication.)

Here, she nicely summarizes some isomer-specific issues as she responds to my questions (Grandlund, 2003 personal communication):

"...We did not find that alpha- linolenic acid was an antagonist to PPARgamma, but that the trans10,cis12 CLA isomer was, and that this effect could help explaining the reduced fat accumulation seen after feeding this CLA isomer
to animals.

In our paper we found that the prevention of fat accumulation could be achieved by 25uM trans10,cis12 CLA in mouse adipocytes, but with as low as 5uM in the human adipocytes. This is a low concentration, and could be achieved in humans. It is shown that the serum concentration of CLA in humans is between 20-70uM, depending of the amount of CLA in the diet. However, this refers to the total CLA concentration, and not the concentration of the 10,12 isomer. The 9,11 CLA isomer is the most abundant in the diet, and will therefore constitute most of the serum concentration.

You will not have the same effect if you have both the CLA isomers (9,11 and 10,12 CLA) at the same time, then the isomers will neutralize each other. The animal studies in which trans10,cis12 CLA has been given separately has the best effect on fat accumulation, however, there are very few human studies with only this isomer, most of the human studies have used a CLA mixture with the two isomers in equal amounts.

Since trans10,cis12 CLA modulates the effect of PPARgamma, and PPARgamma is most abundant in adipose tissue, I guess the best potential is in prevention fat accumulation, not in reducing the fat that is already accumulated."

[prolangtum]

continued:

Par was asking earlier about CLA's effects on PPARalpha null mice, an issue which I address in the thread pasted above, as well as elsewhere on this forum. Below I provide some further comments on this issue.

Many of you may have read the work of Dr. Clifton Baile. He and his colleagues have investigated the effects of CLA on fat cell (adipocyte) apoptosis. Dr. Baile is also involved with an effort to screen for natural products with myostatin-inhibiting properties.

Dr. Mary Anna Della-Fera is one of Dr. Baile's colleagues. Below she comments on the relationship of CLA's 'fat fighting' properties to PPARalpha and PPARgamma (2003 personal communication):

"It is likely that CLA does not affect weight loss and body fat content through it's effects on PPAR alpha. Peters et al (BBA 1533:233, 2001) showed that PPAR-alpha null mice were no different from wild type mice in their response to dietary CLA. Body weight and body fat content were lower in both groups compared to controls and body protein content was higher.

In some experiments PPAR gamma expression was found to be increased, and in others, it was decreased. The effect on PPAR gamma appears to depend on the species, tissue, length of treatment and maybe other factors. For example in 3T3-L1 cells, treatment with CLA 10,12 for 48 hr increased PPAR gamma-2 expression, whereas treatment for 6 days decreased PPAR gamma-2 expression. In another experiment with 3T3 L1 cells, CLA 10,12 decreased mRNA levels of fatty acid synthase, adipocyte lipid binding protein and LPL and reduced PPAR gamma and CEBP alpha levels.

CLA 10,12 has also been found to cause a dose -dependent decrease in expression of steroyl-CoA desaturase 1 gene expression in 3T3-L1 adipocytes. In pigs, dietary CLA treatment was shown to increase PPAR gamma expression in muscle and in intramuscular adipose tissue. CLA isomers have also been shown to increase UCP2 levels in muscle and adipose tissue. The specific mechanism for CLA-induced body fat loss is not yet clear, but may be due to inhibition (or reversal) of adipocyte differentiation. This might also explain the increase in adipocyte apoptosis in CLA-treated mice, since pre-adipocytes are more susceptible to apoptosis triggers than mature adipocytes.

She continues, "There are 2 papers describing loss of body fat in humans treated with CLA (see below). The effects were fairly small. In one study, abdominal diameter was slightly less; in the other study, body fat mass was decreased. Both studies used a mixture of CLA isomers and the quantities were in the 3-6 g/day level. No studies using only the CLA 10,12 isomer in humans have been published. As you know, CLA has other apparent beneficial effects on cancer cell proliferation and inflammation, so it will probably will continue to be tested in humans."

[Cory]

I have read something to that degree, but don't you think that if CLA just inhibited furthur fat storage while eating a clean diet, then you would indirectly burn fat given that you didn't change your diet and exercise regime? Also, the proper way to take CLA and the amounts are very crucial for its efficacy. I read you should take at least 4.6 grams all at one time, preferably in a concentrated clarinol powdered form every day and be very consistant because some people reported that they didn't see significant results until about 3-6 months.

[prolangtum]

For its cost, I would just rather take fish oil.

[Cory]

Yes, it is very expensive, but supposedly it is one of the best fatty acids for fat burning...I guess we will have to wait and see when some long term studies come out to really know if it is the real deal. Thanks prolangtum for your input...you da man!!! ;) :)

[prolangtum]

Your always good for a good ol arguement, we at least keep it civil. Cory, I advise you to go to forum.avantlabs.com (avant labs) and check out it for supplement and diet info and discussion. It is a very intellectual board, probaly the most of all BBing forums.

[Cory]

Originally posted by prolangtum
Your always good for a good ol arguement, we at least keep it civil. Cory, I advise you to go to forum.avantlabs.com (avant labs) and check out it for supplement and diet info and discussion. It is a very intellectual board, probaly the most of all BBing forums.

Thanks brotha, I will check it out!! ;)