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**YellowJacket** · 11-05-04, 05:57 PM

Re: First Post! Can use some help/advice.

Originally posted by Pcgod718
Hey all.

Its my first post.. Spending so much time reading.. But with the ban looming.. im trying kick everything into high gear.
So here's my info, as everyone always asks..
Stats.
34yo been in and out of the gym for the last 3 years. never did ANY gear.
5'8 215 (a FAT 215) :(
eating habits suck badly :( (im a carb-whore)
workout habits, 3-5x week mostly weights, with a light sprinkle of cardio.
I'm a computer tech, so im sittin on my ass 9 hours a day. So my activity levels are in the dumps right now.

Ah, the ol desk job. At least youre motivated enough to get back in the gym. So you overall goal is to drop 30lbs of fat, correct? And Ill assume thats while maintaining lean muscle. A little off topic but your first move should be to read Lyle McDonalds Ultimate Diet 2.0 if you get a chance. PM me on where to find that if youre interested. Its a great read and can take a newbie to knowledgable in 2 days.

Remember, your metabolism isnt what it was in high school, so you have your work cut out for you. As it stands, youre looking to lose 3lbs a week to meet your goals (maybe a little less if you want it done by after Jan. 1.) Your first move is to get your diet down. Because you're less active (desk job), you must be particular about what you eat, and unfortunately, count calories. Please read the following thread and figure your basal metabolic rate, its some simple math but will make your life much easier: http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulle...=&threadid=411

After you get this number, figure your caloric ratio. For cutting, it should be something like 50/25/25 or a slight variation. This means 50 percent of calories from protein, 25 percent from carbs (complex) and 25 percent from healthy fats.

My Plan
1) FAT BURN approx time 2-3 months to get down to 190 or less
To achive this, im planning either a custom ECY stack OR, using the CHIZLED product. Both options come recommended by Yellowjacket (i've been reading here for a couple of weeks now, and YJ fuckin rocks!)
Epehdara = standard vasopro epedrine HCL 25mg ed
Caffine = whatever's cheapest 200mg ed
Yohimbine HCL = prolly 10mg ed
OR
Chizled with the vaso.

Im impressed. Glad you took the time to read and self-educate, otherwise I probably would have avoided this thread :) At this point, I think the latter would be your best bet. A good ol' homemade ECY.

Some Questions
1) Im not planning on running any PH's for a few months yet, i just wanted to confirm that bottled items stay potent for 6months to a year.

Probably longer, they shorten it as a save your ass statement.

2) Is there anything specifically i should be looking for in a prohormone BULKING stack.. i've noticed the followings are the norm around here. (not including injecting..)
a) m1t + 4ad (bulk)
b) m1t + 4ad + m5aa (bulk plus a kick in ass b4 gym)
c) mohn + m1dien (bulking)
d) 1T , 4ad

Ill take A. Almost cant be beat for a first timer and price.

3) i cant seem to find anything reliable for a CUTTING/FATLOSS stack. Should i be sticking to the ECY or is there something that would help me out with that. i shudder to mention T3/Clen/Tren (i shudder cause i havent researched them yet, but if someone wants to chime in .... :)

Right now, diet is going to be 85% more effective than anything else, cardio THEN a thermo or stimulant. Go with the ECY, solid morning cardio and a solid diet. Youll see more results that way, in the beginning, than messing with anything illicit.

4) I've read a few posts where gear virgins are recommended to do a 1Test as their first cycle rather than an M1t. Am i misunderstanding this??

M1T is potent. No denying that. Its an anabolic steroid, if you've never used any exogenous hormones before, good ol 1-test might not be a bad idea, or even something like 1-AD (which is becoming hard to find).

5) Do carb/fat blockers REALLY work? (Yj??)

In short, no.

6) i really dont sleep well at ALL. I can put in 2 hours at the gym and still stay up til 3am most nights. I cant deal with 4 hours sleep like i used to. anything you guys recommend? I've read up on melatonin. anything else?

Melatonin is good, but learning to go to bed naturally cant be beat. Its tough to rely on OTC supplements to put you to bed, they can be addicting and eventually, you feel like you cant live without them. Try cutting out any stimulants before around 6-7.

7) back to the m1t .. is this product actually any good? GAT Methyl Depot (heres the link http://www.discountanabolics.com/page/DA/PROD/M1T/GA02)

Interesting, but Id go with AMT's from powernutrition.net. Theyre very reliable (best around and IVe never heard of that company) and its very cheap. Not to mention they sponsor the board.

8) Is all that coritisol hype for real? (if anyone is stressed.. it sure is me). should i look into the 7-oxo/7-keto-dhea as part of my ecy stack.

Caffeine & ephedrine are both cortisol blockers as well as things like vitamin c and insulin (the insulin response you get from your post workout carbs), I wouldnt invest in 7-oxo yet......

9) should i only really be looking into transdermal materials as oppsed to orals?

The efficacy of transdermals are much better due to their higher bioavailbility, but theyre becoming obsolete due to the new M1T. If you can find them from a reputable company (Avant, BDC Nutrition) go for it, otherwise M1T or oral 1-test will due.

1) Milk Thistle, Hawthorne berry (detox)
2) Satur8 Creatine powder
3) Protien powder (not sure which yet)
4) Nolva (im sure at some point im going to want to try some m1t)
5) ECY (either homebrew or chizled)

Good. Satur8 is very good in my opinion. Optimum 100% whey tastes very good and is high quality, not to mention $24 per 5lbs. A good multi would be good and fish oil would be perfect in your situation. Healthy fats are key.

Anything else, let me know.

**njlovehandles** · 11-05-04, 06:27 PM

yj, ypu are the man. This prettty much answered a post i just put up about fat loss. 30 is about the same i would like to cut. Thanks, and good luck pc god

**Pcgod718** · 11-05-04, 10:54 PM

yj, ypu are the man. This prettty much answered a post i just put up about fat loss. 30 is about the same i would like to cut. Thanks, and good luck pc god

Thanks NJ. I kinda figured there had to be guys like me lurking on the board, and were either just too scared of getting flamed, or saw all the information and just said fuck it.

But this is something i really want.. i had it in my line of sight a year ago, and let it slip through. With the right focus, 30lbs of fat isnt an impossible goal. Even with just consideration of diet, 30lbs can be reached.. i went from 260 to 182ish in a little over 9 months and i wasnt REALLY focused on the first 60 pounds.. just concious of what i ate somewhat. The xenadrine didnt hurt either :drunk: But like everyone else, i would love all the assistance i can get, and if that assistance comes from scarfing down a few pills or what not.. then so be it.

The cool thing is, when you have a ton of fat to get rid of, once you start the ball rolling, it really comes off quick.. its usually once your body gets used to the routine that those last 10 or 20 piss you off. Once i hit 200 it felt like forever to get to 190, and then the last 5 pounds were torture.. My problem is i can gain it or lose it REALLY quick.. and like i said, im a carb whore. I cant sit there and eat oreos or ice cream.. nah.. my weakness is chips and rice and breads. once i start eating that shit.. its like cocaine at a hollywood party.. just cant get enough.

once i have all my product and everything in line, im going to post up a diary. Pictures and thoughts, products i used, food thats worked. Im sure the first pictures are gonna be scary.. kinda like watching The SWAN.. but with me as the ugly duckling.

Im trying to make my posts very well thought out, and reasonable, as many of the people on this board are well advanced (or think they are) and they take many things for granted when talkin with a noob. It took me quite a while to figure out what alot of the abbreviations are, and i didnt want to be the typical poster and ask, hey, whats nolva, and where can i buy it, and blah blah blah. funny thing is, most of the sites dont sell NOLVA or NOLVADEX, they sell TAMOX. hmmmm.. go figure. took me 2 days to find that out :rofl:
So aaaanyways.. i figiured if i posted things that were well thought out and SPELLED out and such, people doing the searching would actually find some pertinant info. At least people with my problem. (that problem being, HEY, i dont wanna be a bodybuilder.. i dont even wanna LOOK like a bodybuilder. i just wanna look GOOD, and FEEL good.) cause i gotta say.. the best thing about being the wieght i was, was how i FELT. i could run around with my kids, my knees didnt hurt, climbing stairs was a joy. and having women checkin me out didnt hurt either ;)

Damn, look at this post.. i must have diarhea of the fingers!

ok.. i have to pick YJ's brain some more. i have a credit crd just itching to be used and i better get to it, before my girlfriend finds it and decides she wants something stupid like a 60th pair of boots or purse..

-pc

**Pcgod718** · 11-06-04, 12:25 AM

Im impressed. Glad you took the time to read and self-educate, otherwise I probably would have avoided this thread At this point, I think the latter would be your best bet. A good ol' homemade ECY.

Im glad you took the time as well. Your answers are ALWAYS clear, concise, and well thought/documented. That being the case, i wouldnt want to waste your time answering things that have been regurgitated to death. And although everyone thinks their case is different and special and needs a real answer (mine is though.. really i promise ;) ). i wanted to understand your responses, and hopefully start a thread that other people like myself (mid 30s or so, with more than just a spare tire) could use. Keep that in mind if some of my questions are repetitive or i type out full words for abbreviations.

That being said.. lets push on. Firstly i would love nothing more than to buy my products at board sponsors, as i find this site an invaluable resource, and if nothing else, i am loyal. Problem is i have to say that Powernutrions searching is not up to par. as an example. go type M1T . and you will come up empty. i know the m1t is advertised ad nauseum on there, but try vasopro, ephedrine, caffiene.. hmm.. no dice. HELP? or maybe they just dont stock those products..

1) ECY = 25/200/10mg every day. is yohimbine HCL what im looking for? its my understanding that HCL is the laboratory grade product and should be superior. Also should any other supps be put in there for good measure Green, Chroimium Etc.

Ill take A. Almost cant be beat for a first timer and price.

2) OK Option (A) was the m1t, 4ad stack. Thats what i've read is the standard, and im glad you confirmed. That what i will purchase. Currently Lionnutrition has a special of m1t+tamox combo for $50. From what ive seen thats a kick ass price. What im having difficulty with is finding an oral 4ad. I can find the transdermal, but as you suggested i'll stick to totally oral. If you can help me locate that it would be great.

Right now, diet is going to be 85% more effective than anything else, cardio THEN a thermo or stimulant. Go with the ECY, solid morning cardio and a solid diet. Youll see more results that way, in the beginning, than messing with anything illicit.

3) totally in agreement here. im not looking for the magic pill. but keeping in mind that the ban is 2 months away, and that if all goes well, i may need assistance with the final few pounds or some help after a bulking stage , what would you recommend as a plan of attack. I hear nice things about s1+ (1t,4ad in a transdermal). Not sure how cost effective it is tho.
Of course i can build my own transdermal and keep costs down. But i'll have to research that .

The efficacy of transdermals are much better due to their higher bioavailbility, but theyre becoming obsolete due to the new M1T. If you can find them from a reputable company (Avant, BDC Nutrition) go for it, otherwise M1T or oral 1-test will due.

4) The new M1T being the gelcaps? They sound nice.. but the price.. welllll.. i think not :(

5) A personal issue now. When on xenadrine a while back (when it had ephedra) Occasionally, i found that . "Mr. HAPPY" didnt RISE to the OCCASION. :eek: ya know. dunno if it was the stimulants, the excersize, or what.. Can i rely on the yohimbe to keep me umm UP TO PAR.. or should i throw something else in to fuel the fire. i dont know if the m1t is gonna make me a sexual deviant for 2 weeks or what.. and if i reach my goals.. i dont wanna start off the new year with silly willy.

Revised Purchase List With approx Prices & Location

1) $20 Milk Thistle, Hawthorne berry (detox) (PN)
2) $30 Satur8 Creatine powder (PN)
3) $25 Optimum Whey Vanilla (PN)
4) $50 M1T + Nolva (TAMOX) (Sale at LionNutrition)
5) $26 ECY (cant find the E or C at PN, gonna have to for to 1fast)
6) $10 Omega 3-6-9 1000mg (PN)
7) ?? REALLY good Multivitamin
8) ?? 4AD . Oral or Transdermal. Still up in the air.
9) ?? Libido sexual stimulant fixer upper (if necessary)
10) $10 Psyllium Husk -Fiber- (PN)
11) $15 M5aa -dunno.. im a bit curious- (1fast)
12) $15 ZMA (PN)

as always.. this list is a starting off point, things may be added or removed as suggestions come in.
Thanks to everyone for all their help.
YJ RULES!

**YellowJacket** · 11-07-04, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Pcgod718

1) ECY = 25/200/10mg every day. is yohimbine HCL what im looking for? its my understanding that HCL is the laboratory grade product and should be superior. Also should any other supps be put in there for good measure Green, Chroimium Etc.

Use the drop down boxes on the left to find items, I also couldnt find a few things, dont hesistate to e-mail the guys at PN, they'll be glad to help out...

Y-HCL is what youre looking for. At 215, you may want to opt for around 20mgs of Yohimbe. Its very inexpensive as well. Remember, yohimbe is bestu sed on a low carb diet.

Green tea is a great addition, but be weary of stacking too many stimulants, it could blunt the CNS and prevent good sleep, which you mentioned you already had trouble with.

2) OK Option (A) was the m1t, 4ad stack. Thats what i've read is the standard, and im glad you confirmed. That what i will purchase. Currently Lionnutrition has a special of m1t+tamox combo for $50. From what ive seen thats a kick ass price. What im having difficulty with is finding an oral 4ad. I can find the transdermal, but as you suggested i'll stick to totally oral. If you can help me locate that it would be great.

That is a pretty good price. As for oral 4-ad, here's a VERY cheap 4-ad powder ... http://powernutrition.net/product_in...roducts_id=259

You can cap it yourself or mix it in juice.

3) totally in agreement here. im not looking for the magic pill. but keeping in mind that the ban is 2 months away, and that if all goes well, i may need assistance with the final few pounds or some help after a bulking stage , what would you recommend as a plan of attack. I hear nice things about s1+ (1t,4ad in a transdermal). Not sure how cost effective it is tho.
Of course i can build my own transdermal and keep costs down. But i'll have to research that .

After using M1t, no reason to go back down the ladder to 1-test.

4) The new M1T being the gelcaps? They sound nice.. but the price.. welllll.. i think not :(

I agree.... the mark up is absurd.

5) A personal issue now. When on xenadrine a while back (when it had ephedra) Occasionally, i found that . "Mr. HAPPY" didnt RISE to the OCCASION. :eek: ya know. dunno if it was the stimulants, the excersize, or what.. Can i rely on the yohimbe to keep me umm UP TO PAR.. or should i throw something else in to fuel the fire. i dont know if the m1t is gonna make me a sexual deviant for 2 weeks or what.. and if i reach my goals.. i dont wanna start off the new year with silly willy.

With ephedrine use, the blood goes elsewhere and leaves Mr Happy a biy dry. Yohimbe will cure that for sure, well personally speaking. I think you'll find not only that but the 'experience' is also increased by yohimbe.

Revised Purchase List With approx Prices & Location

1) $20 Milk Thistle, Hawthorne berry (detox) (PN)
2) $30 Satur8 Creatine powder (PN)
3) $25 Optimum Whey Vanilla (PN)
4) $50 M1T + Nolva (TAMOX) (Sale at LionNutrition)
5) $26 ECY (cant find the E or C at PN, gonna have to for to 1fast)
6) $10 Omega 3-6-9 1000mg (PN)
7) ?? REALLY good Multivitamin
8) ?? 4AD . Oral or Transdermal. Still up in the air.
9) ?? Libido sexual stimulant fixer upper (if necessary)
10) $10 Psyllium Husk -Fiber- (PN)
11) $15 M5aa -dunno.. im a bit curious- (1fast)
12) $15 ZMA (PN)

as always.. this list is a starting off point, things may be added or removed as suggestions come in.
Thanks to everyone for all their help.
YJ RULES!

All looks good. Good research, you seem to be prepared. As another auxillary supplement, but one that is very underrated, I like to recommend NAC for its myriad of benefits on the liver, heart, immune system, etc. ITs not too pricey, around $14 but certainly worth the $$$. I wrote an article on it awhile back if youd like to read it, its fairly convincing on why NAC should be an everyday supplement.

**Pcgod718** · 11-08-04, 02:43 PM

cap my own powder? y/n

Thank for all the feedback YJ, i'll pick up some NAC as well.. one more question (i doubt it will be the last).

Whats your feeling on capping. It seems SOOO much more cost effective to cap my own bulk powders. i.e 3g or yohibine hcl is $10 and 750 caps are $7, OR a bottle of Y-HCL 2.7mg/180 is almost $18. If my math is correct you're getting a lil more than .5g in the $17 bottle of Yhcl. So at the 20mg dosage recommended for my 215lbs everyday, 1 bottle would last approx 1 month and 1 gram would last almost 2.5 months.
But in reality, is it more of a headache to cap myself (i.e the powder is a real bitch to work with, the caps are hard to close, spoilage, etc) or is it pretty simple and people just get charged a premium. I really wonder what an honest answer to this would be.

Thanks!
Pc

**YellowJacket** · 11-08-04, 04:13 PM

Its much cheaper to cap it yourself and not that difficult. Use the Cap'em Quick system and its not time consuming at all and you can save a whole lot of cash.

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