shoulder help

[Knoxy]

I've been looking to gain some size in my traps and deltoids and feel my routine isn't getting me very far. I'm 6'1", 188 lbs. I work my shoulders on my legs day and follow a routine that works the traps and then deltoids. I start with standing upright rows in a 10, 8, 6 pattern with 30 seconds rest between sets and an increase of 10 lbs each. I then do a close grip upright row that follows the same pattern. I then put a rope handle on a seated row machine and do a similar routine but pull the rope in up to neck height. I then do a 10, 8, 6 routine for my delts with forward, lateral, and rear delt raises, focusing on the negatives of the lift. I then do some cuban presses with light weight and top it all off with a military press. At first glance, I think I may be overtraining so any advice would greatly be appreciated.

[BBAddict]

WOW!! At least you recognize you're overtraining. I can't imagine ever doing that much for shoulders and I admit I walk the line of overtraining. There's no way you need to be doing that many variations on an upright row every time you do shoulders. Shoulders are a relatively small muscle group. I would recommend sticking to no more than 4 lifts for shoulders. More isn't always better, especially since shoulders get worked to some extent on both back day and chest day.
I love raises, especially with cables and usually add a press or the upright row but doing all of the above is a bit excessive, IMO.

[bowbow]

Yeah thats a bit much imo. You may want to try putting your military press first you'll be able to lift more weight that way. that is your best mass building excersize for shoulders. And if your looking for mass don't be afraid to rest a little more between sets also.

[Knoxy]

Thanks for the advice. Today is shoulder's day so I'm gonna go try it out. Maybe limiting myself to just four types of lifts and rotating out for different types of lifts weekly?

[bm1984]

i would do shoulders on a day by itsself if you wanna focus on adding size. and a great shoulder exercise to try is the arnolds. they get front and back of delts and just feel great...
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/exerc...rnoldpress.htm

[Strengthminx]

all of the upright rows in your routine made me wince. these are NOT a good mass-builder like a military or DB shoulder press. i work in a rehab facility and we see a lot of shoulder impingements and the like caused by heavy upright rows and behind-the neck presses. i would lay off of those if i were you. if you are looking for bigger traps, hit some very heavy shrugs and deadlifts. also, for delt development you could try heavy dumbbell presses and heavy side laterals. and setting aside a separate day for shoulders is a great idea if you want them to grow. just make sure you keep your shoulder and chest day a few workouts apart so you dont overtrain.
good luck!
~MINX

[daf2]

first do shoulders on a separate day then legs. second do your pressing motion first(military/db) and then do either a front or side raises. preferably side since the press will be enough for your anterior delts. for traps all you need is 4-6 sets of heavy db or bb shrugs.

[Knoxy]

Minx brings up another problem I have, that being establishing a routine where I'm not stacking body parts to close together. At my particular job, I go in Saturday mornings and can't leave until tuesday at night. This means I have to cram four workout days back to back and I know my splits aren't spaced well enough to let my body recover. So far, my workouts fall like this: Tues- light chest and triceps, Wed-back and bis, Thurs-leg and shoulders, Fri-heavy chest. I know some of you might frown on doing chest twice a week but I've actually seen more gains this way then when I was doing it only once. Can anyone help me with my scheduling?

[coffee-guy]

Can anyone help me with my scheduling?

1. Write out all of your body parts that you work

2. Write out the number of days you have available

3. Check off each bodypart and when it is the focus muscle

4. Put a star next to the secondary muscles used

5. Make sure that you give your secondary muscles at least 48 hours to recover before making them your focus muscle

I.E.

Work chest on Monday and Tricep on Wednesday...

Back on Tuesday and Biceps on Thursday...

Last but not least - keep reading and DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOUR BODY!

[babyblues]

WOW!! At least you recognize you're overtraining. I can't imagine ever doing that much for shoulders and I admit I walk the line of overtraining. There's no way you need to be doing that many variations on an upright row every time you do shoulders. Shoulders are a relatively small muscle group. I would recommend sticking to no more than 4 lifts for shoulders. More isn't always better, especially since shoulders get worked to some extent on both back day and chest day.
I love raises, especially with cables and usually add a press or the upright row but doing all of the above is a bit excessive, IMO.

I agree. Upright rows are a good finishing exercise, but they don't do much for mass. I like using the Smith Machine for military presses. I don't have to worry about hurting myself and the motion is the same for each rep

[metalmarty]

I agree. Upright rows are a good finishing exercise, but they don't do much for mass. I like using the Smith Machine for military presses. I don't have to worry about hurting myself and the motion is the same for each rep

I agree. But switch up the presses with dumbells from week to week.