New split i'm trying, what do you guys think?

[Stonecold54]

we can talk in circles all day bro. i don't mean the feeling of a pump and let me be clear on what i mean by results. in the last 4 months my bf% has dropped by 2% and i have gained 12lbs.

don't talk to me about personality differences and how i want to feel. don't talk to me about how changing a training style is like changing a religion.

i do what works. i have experimented with all kinds of different ways of training. i am not afraid to change, i have done so, many times.

i think the issue here is you being so sure what your doing is correct that you are not willing to listen to a different idea about training. could it be that maybe.. just maybe that people are different and what works for me does not work for you and vice versa?

I won't belabor the issue but I have done both types of training...number one you are trying to peg me in a corner to a certain type of training (I don't do HIT/MENTZER). I follow a prescribed formula that IS different for every person. it is a set of PREMISES that LEAD to a program, not a canned routine. I can't believe you would peg me as someone who doesn't listen to other people or capable of change, I think I am one of the few people that argues properly with actually facts and coherent thoughts but maybe I am just to sure of myself :) But I will be the first to admit that I was wrong when I went to Mentzer's abreviated program (he had the right premises but his conclusions were wrong) and I was wrong to train in Volume training. I gurarntee what works for me exactly would not work exactly for someone else...again I am not canning a program and telling them what to do. when I tell people that you cannot recover from a training session in a day that is a fact (The Stress of Life by Hans Seyle). you can choose to ignore it, I choose to use it to my advantage. and my analogy to religion is accurate because something about training makes people get so damned defensive like they have the be all end all. no where have I said that my training is perfect but I know what I can change and I know where I can't go in my training if I want to stay healthy as well as get results. (www.exercisecertification.com if anyone is interested in reading about it)

[Bouncer]

when I tell people that you cannot recover from a training session in a day that is a fact (The Stress of Life by Hans Seyle). you can choose to ignore it, I choose to use it to my advantage.

what makes it an absolute fact? do these facts take into account 7-8 meals a day, AAS, supplements, hours of sleep, genetics etc.. Explain these facts please. and when you are talking about recovery, are you talking about the specific muscle worked or the whole body?

because you have read some books and some studies does not make something absolute fact. i choose real world experience and tried and true methods from countless great bodybuilders and athletes.

i train 6 days a week at 45 minutes per session and have great results. are you saying that if i adopted your approach to training that i would have far greater results?

Would Arnold have been better if he hadn't trained twice a day but instead 2 or 3 times a week? Would Cutler, Coleman, Dorian, etc.. etc..?

[toolwtf]

lol read what you wrote again...then read up on endorcrinology and then write back when you are educated

I'm educated. You want to have a debate about this? Let's rock and roll. Endocrinology, such a big word. I'll go first.

A. You take Steroids
B. I don't

If I kept my training and diet consistant and introduced steroids, would I gain more muscle? Absolutely. If you got off the juice and kept your training and diet exactly the same, would you lose muscle? Yes.

....And you would be completely shut down. You would lose most of everything you have because from the way I understand it, you haven't been off in years and I doubt proper clomid/PCT would do much for someone in your situation. And IMO if you actually knew anything about endorcrinology, then you wouldn't stay on year round, you would cycle. Right?

[Stonecold54]

I'm educated. You want to have a debate about this? Let's rock and roll. Endocrinology, such a big word. I'll go first.

A. You take Steroids
B. I don't

If I kept my training and diet consistant and introduced steroids, would I gain more muscle? Absolutely. If you got off the juice and kept your training and diet exactly the same, would you lose muscle? Yes.

....And you would be completely shut down. You would lose most of everything you have because from the way I understand it, you haven't been off in years and I doubt proper clomid/PCT would do much for someone in your situation. And IMO if you actually knew anything about endorcrinology, then you wouldn't stay on year round, you would cycle. Right?

well A and B I don't have an issue with. I agree with your statement of that you would gain muscle. I again don't have a problem with the statement that I would lose muscle if I got off the "juice". (But I am not sure where that came from because I wouldn't because train the same way if I was natural because I understand how steroids and volume/frequency of training interact). and yes I would be completely shut down if I came off. so what does all this have to do with your first post? lol

here is what you first wrote I agree. SC can probably maintain what he has by working out 1-2 times per week like he does because he is on juice year round. I'm natural, and if I don't hit the gym at least 4 days per week I start losing it fast. SC would probably be a beast if he worked out as hard as I do. who said I only work out 1-2 times a week? if I did say that recently its because I have a specific context and reason (though I don't think I have mentioned it on this board, but I coudl be wrong). so I take issue with your first statement. I agree that you are natural (meaning i have no reason to dispute it at this time). again I can only agree with you that you lose size if you don't work out 4 times a week (must be a magical number). and I guess I can't agrue with your last statment because i Have to take it at face value that you work out "like a beast".

a few side comments: I don't judge my workouts by the standard calendar week. not sure why people feel they need to follow a political calendar for their bodies. and as far as training hard we can be internet tough guys all day because obvsiouly we would never settle the issues. so my conclusion about your posts is that you say true things that have nothing to do with anything relavant.

[toolwtf]

For the record and to stay on topic with the original poster, here is my split. I do weight training every other day and run sprints on off days. I don't actually have any true "off" days. I do some form of exercise every single day. I don't like to do resistance training two days in a row because I believe your forearms and core need at least a days break after a heavy resistance training session.

Sunday - Chest/Back
Monday - Sprints
Tuesday - Shoulders/Legs
Wednesday - Sprints
Thursday - BIs/TRIs
Friday - Sprints
Saturday - Repeat.... (Chest/Back)

So I hit each muscle every 6 days and I spend 1 hour on each muscle, so I'm in the gym for 2 hours each session. I like to stay lean, so I believe in keeping my heart rate up. My weight training sessions are very intense and I will mix in supersets and dropsets frequently and I go heavy. I sip a whey protien/simple carb mix during my workout and I slam a PWO right afterwards (I use Biotest's surge). Most of my beliefs come from John Berardi. I believe in his training methods and nutrition strategies. I like to be built like a sprinter vs. a long distance runner this is why I choose sprinting as my cardio. I'm currently 219lbs and 8% BF and all natural and the above split works very well for me.

[Stonecold54]

what makes it an absolute fact? do these facts take into account 7-8 meals a day, AAS, supplements, hours of sleep, genetics etc.. Explain these facts please. and when you are talking about recovery, are you talking about the specific muscle worked or the whole body?

because you have read some books and some studies does not make something absolute fact. i choose real world experience and tried and true methods from countless great bodybuilders and athletes.

i train 6 days a week at 45 minutes per session and have great results. are you saying that if i adopted your approach to training that i would have far greater results?

Would Arnold have been better if he hadn't trained twice a day but instead 2 or 3 times a week? Would Cutler, Coleman, Dorian, etc.. etc..?

yes I am saying the body reacts to stressors the same way no matter how much protein, juice or sleep you get. genetics I will give in, in the number of hormone molecules your body makes (but that is just a number but the reaction is the same). and what I am talking about is G.A.S. general adaptive syndrome (whole body). a specific muscle can recover faster than the body but the body is what counts in the long run as overtraining is systemic and basically means you are trying to play catchup. I am sure i have written about it before (damn I just did a search and can't find anything lengthy). I will write more on it tomorrow but I need to get my genetic sleep to optimize my gains ( :D ). and as far as if people would gain better on 2 to 3 times week...again if they followed the "prescribed exercise" method the program would be adapted to their specific body (dorian yates did do a version of HIT/prescribed exercise in his carreer). there is no magical 2 days a week or 3 days a week or 4 days a week. it would have to be a meticulous kept logbook that would identify their bodytypes, fiber types and how they best respond to training.

[toolwtf]

who said I only work out 1-2 times a week? if I did say that recently its because I have a specific context and reason (though I don't think I have mentioned it on this board, but I coudl be wrong). so I take issue with your first statement.

I apologize if I was wrong, but I throught I read somewhere that you said you only work out 1-2 times per week and that you believe rest is more important that training. Maybe it was in another thread, I won't try to dig it up but I could be mistaken and if so I apologize.

I also feel that there are 4 components to bodybuilding. Training, Diet, Steroids, and Genetics. If you take away one of the four then you are at a disadvantage. Genetics are tough to debate, lets just say yours and mine are equal... but the fact that I only have 3 to work with because I don't take steroids and you have 4, then I feel like you have an advantage over me and this is why I said you would probably be a beast if you trained as I do.

[Bouncer]

yes I am saying the body reacts to stressors the same way no matter how much protein, juice or sleep you get. genetics I will give in, in the number of hormone molecules your body makes (but that is just a number but the reaction is the same). and what I am talking about is G.A.S. general adaptive syndrome (whole body). a specific muscle can recover faster than the body but the body is what counts in the long run as overtraining is systemic and basically means you are trying to play catchup. I am sure i have written about it before (damn I just did a search and can't find anything lengthy). I will write more on it tomorrow but I need to get my genetic sleep to optimize my gains ( :D ). and as far as if people would gain better on 2 to 3 times week...again if they followed the "prescribed exercise" method the program would be adapted to their specific body (dorian yates did do a version of HIT/prescribed exercise in his carreer). there is no magical 2 days a week or 3 days a week or 4 days a week. it would have to be a meticulous kept logbook that would identify their bodytypes, fiber types and how they best respond to training.

in other words what you are saying is that you don't believe in any type of program but instead one that is geared towards a person's genetics and how they respond to weight training etc..? if so, what the hell are we arguing about.. this is what I have been saying the whole damn time.. ie. "everyone is different and we all respond differently." as i said earlier in the post.


i would be interested however to see your results if you followed my program.

[Bouncer]

yes I am saying the body reacts to stressors the same way no matter how much protein, juice or sleep you get. genetics I will give in

so you are saying that AAS does not play a part in recovery?

[alwaysgrowing]

drama time. but each person is different. i need to do triceps and biceps by themselves, not after chest or back. i;m spent after doing either of those, so arms on its own. but to each their own. if it works for you, use it.