Pyramid vs. Inverse Pyramid

[Scrumhalf]

I've never understood the logic of the pyramid as a weight/rep scheme. The inverse pyramid makes much more sense to me.

After my warmup sets, I go directly to the heaviest weight I intend to do - for example, 75lb DBs for 5 reps. That's my first working set. For my second set, I might stay at 75lbs but perhaps only get 3-4 reps. Then for my third set, I might drop down to 70lbs and get 5 reps, and so on. The logic of this "inverse pyramid" is that you are always pushing hard on every set. As you get fatigued, you can drop in weight to keep the intensity high.

The regular pyramid doesn't make sense to me. Why should I do a set at a lower weight than I am capable of, and then increase to a higher weight. Isn't the first set at the lower weight a waste, relatively speaking? Yet, the pyramid seems to be the preferred scheme by most people.

Is there anything wrong with my logic? My goal is strength with minimal hypertrophy.

[dna9488]

I've done inverse pyramid a few times and noticed that i got gains. For example, if week 1 I did 100lb press for 5 reps, and did 4 sets of that. I would come back week 2, and do 90lb for 10 reps, 4 sets. Than the 3rd week, be able to do 100lbs for 7-8 reps. By week 4, i would try 105lb.

I keep that mentally of "keep the body guessing" So i try to change it up often.

[mormonmuscle]

I've never understood the logic of the pyramid as a weight/rep scheme. The inverse pyramid makes much more sense to me.

After my warmup sets, I go directly to the heaviest weight I intend to do - for example, 75lb DBs for 5 reps. That's my first working set. For my second set, I might stay at 75lbs but perhaps only get 3-4 reps. Then for my third set, I might drop down to 70lbs and get 5 reps, and so on. The logic of this "inverse pyramid" is that you are always pushing hard on every set. As you get fatigued, you can drop in weight to keep the intensity high.

The regular pyramid doesn't make sense to me. Why should I do a set at a lower weight than I am capable of, and then increase to a higher weight. Isn't the first set at the lower weight a waste, relatively speaking? Yet, the pyramid seems to be the preferred scheme by most people.

Is there anything wrong with my logic? My goal is strength with minimal hypertrophy.

I lift the inverse way. I will do a warm up and then go straight to lifting as much as I can for the reps I'm trying to achieve. My reps stay the same on the 3rd 4th etc. sets so I drop weight so I can stay at the target rep range. It seems to work for me, I weigh 165 and 5'6" and I can Bench Press 315 lbs. 8 times on my first set. I'm sure that's nothing like what the monsters on here can do, but I'm trying.

[Scrumhalf]

Cool.. sounds good! Thanks for the affirmation! :thumup:

And 315lbs at 165lbs puts you in the monster category in my book. That's the kind of strength to bodyweight ratio that I am striving for. I weigh about 130lbs and while I haven't benched in a while (never felt very comfortable), I can push 75lb dumbbells for reps, can do dips with 75lbs on the dip belt and do 15-18 dead hang pullups depending on the day. Not bad, but a long way to go strength-wise.. :)

Did you do specific things to gain strength in terms of structuring your training?

[mormonmuscle]

Cool.. sounds good! Thanks for the affirmation! :thumup:

And 315lbs at 165lbs puts you in the monster category in my book. That's the kind of strength to bodyweight ratio that I am striving for. I weigh about 130lbs and while I haven't benched in a while (never felt very comfortable), I can push 75lb dumbbells for reps, can do dips with 75lbs on the dip belt and do 15-18 dead hang pullups depending on the day. Not bad, but a long way to go strength-wise.. :)

Did you do specific things to gain strength in terms of structuring your training?

It's weird to say, but I don't really lift for strength, I lift for size, strength is a side effect. :) I weighed 100 lbs. when I first started to diet and train at 25 years old and now I'm 32. My diet is truly what helped me. I'm not sure how to answer how to gain strength through training without explaining my whole program and diet but I do try to follow a 60% carb and 40% protein ratio, and I lift 5 times a week.

[Scrumhalf]

How many calories do you target per day? I am shooting for about maintenance right now because I want to stay lean and gain just strength, which for me is about 1800 calories or so.

[mormonmuscle]

You're going to laugh. I eat close to 4000 to 4500 calories per day. If I have less than that then I lose muscle. When I was at 130 lbs. though I was having about 2500 to 3000 calories per day.

[Scrumhalf]

Are you not afraid of getting fat at that kind of calorie intake? 4000 cal after all must be twice of maintenance at 165lbs. I am 10% BF and I would hate to lose my cuts to gain strength... :)

[mormonmuscle]

I stay at 10% bf. I've really never gone over that. Like I said, if I don't eat that many calories, especially the protein, then I lose muscle. I didn't just jump into that many calories, I started low and measured my arms and chest, when I didn't see anymore growth, I would increase my caloric intake by 500. I just kept to that and I've been able to keep my fat levels fairly low while still building muscle and strength.

[mormonmuscle]

Also, I'm not trying to maintain, I'm trying to build.

[Scrumhalf]

Thanks! I am going to start experimenting with my calorie intake. Bump it up by 200-300 (shoot for 2000 for now) and see how it goes. You must have a naturally great metabolism...

Are you on AAS - answer if you are comfortable doing so. I am natural and vegetarian, so what works for most on this board does not necessarily to me.. :(

[Bouncer]

I stay at 10% bf. I've really never gone over that. Like I said, if I don't eat that many calories, especially the protein, then I lose muscle. I didn't just jump into that many calories, I started low and measured my arms and chest, when I didn't see anymore growth, I would increase my caloric intake by 500. I just kept to that and I've been able to keep my fat levels fairly low while still building muscle and strength.

that is what everyone should be doing. we are all different and the only way to truly understand our bodies is too experiment with what works.

[mormonmuscle]

Yes, I am on AAS. But, I did have great gains before I ever took anything. Matter of fact I got up to 140 lbs. with my program and I had the testosterone levels of a 14 year old boy. That's when I was able to get hormone replacement therapy and then I went to a high normal range and my strength increased a ton, and the size just kept coming. I now take more AAS just cuz I want to be huge and I don't get it from the doctor anymore cuz I'm sick of making his car payments for him. Either way, I had great strength gains from very low testosterone levels. I'm sure it's you that talks about having the strength of a gymnast, so you and I are alot alike. I used to be in gymnastics and I could do over 30 pullups, i could do iron crosses and planges, all that stuff, with a low level of testosterone. So you should be able to get good gains if you keep an eye on your diet, cuz that seems to be what helped me the most.

[Scrumhalf]

Sounds good. Thanks for your inputs!

[3v1lj03]

From Vladimir Zatsiorsky (Former USSR Olympic strength coach) Pyramid training: ...has been virtually abandoned by Olympic-caliber athletes. The ascending part of such a routine induces premature fatigue, while the descending portion is not efficient since it is performed in a fatigue state.For contemporary training, fast progression to the main training load is typical.