Pre-fatigueing

[Jordan]

i realise this is a somewhat complicated question and for that i apoloigise... anyways, i want to start capitilizing on pre fatigueing and was hoping someone could offer a few pointers on this matter. mainly, i dont want to over train. my understanding was that it is appropriate to use the pre fatigue technique approximately once a once for each mucsle group, however i feel as tho i could do more. i remember that nekrawolf recently posted a thread on a new approach to working the chest where you pre fatigue everytime (start with flies, finish with presses). is it okay to do this for every workout or should you use the traditional order most often and occasionaly through in this method? if so, is it also ok to do this for, say, shoulders aswell? (Start with dumbell raises, finish with presses, upright rows). Any adivce would be much appretiated. thanks,
j

[goliath]

i think the theory behind it is bunk. common sense tells me that it is extremely counter-productive to exhaust the muscle i'm trying to build before i even get a chance to challenge it. it just makes no sense what so ever to me.

[Stonecold54]

Pre-exhaustion is an excellent way to get the most out of muscle group that would normally be held back by a weak link. For instance. In any type of pulldown movement or rowing movement for the lats the bicep and grip muscles are the weak link in the movement. Obvisouly your back muscles are much stronger than either of these muscle groups. So if your biceps and grip muscles are always failing before your back is adequalety fatigues how can it get a good workout. That being said a lat pullover machine is an excellent pre-exhause movement. same with any shoulder or chest pressing movement. For chest, the shoulders and tricpes are your weak links that must be bypassed with a chest flye or cable crossover before the major movement is completed. You have to remember thought that if you pre-exhause the second movement in the set must be done relatively quickly because muscles regain strength rather quickly. One of my favorite movements to use this technique is doing a set of leg extensions to momentary and volitional muscular failure and then jump on the leg press and do a set to failure. Remember when you are doing this though that you are adding an additional set to your workout so it should be used in cycles. maybe a few weeks on and then a few weeks off. Good luck. :)

[Thor]

There is a lot of debate on the effectiveness of pre-exhaustion. I personally have achieved some great pumps from the technique that made me feel it was quite effective. However, Muscular Dvelopment magazine in an issue a few months ago referenced a study whereby they compared lifters using pre-exhaust techniques versus not and found the not group to produce better gains. The magazine expressed the conclusion that pre-exhaustion was ineffective.

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by Thor
There is a lot of debate on the effectiveness of pre-exhaustion. I personally have achieved some great pumps from the technique that made me feel it was quite effective. However, Muscular Dvelopment magazine in an issue a few months ago referenced a study whereby they compared lifters using pre-exhaust techniques versus not and found the not group to produce better gains. The magazine expressed the conclusion that pre-exhaustion was ineffective.

of course we all know how believable magazines are LOL. all people need to do is think about it. is the bicep a weak link in most back exercises? YES. would it help to pre-exhaust the stonger muscle to help alleviate some of the stength difference and reduce the weak links effect on the exercise as a whole? YES. pretty straight foward to me.

[telephone]

i pre exhaust quads before squats..the reason for this is that i have 2 herniated disc in back and pre exhaustin them allows me to work them very hard durin squats without using too much weight on my back..if my back was healthy i would probably not do preexhausting..

[psyko1]

i think it pretty much all depends on the individual, only you truly know what works for your body.

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by telephone
i pre exhaust quads before squats..the reason for this is that i have 2 herniated disc in back and pre exhaustin them allows me to work them very hard durin squats without using too much weight on my back..if my back was healthy i would probably not do preexhausting..

well your reasoning is perfect in the first part of your post but why would you not do them in your normal training. the fact that you can squat more weight when not pre-exhausting does not mean you are getting a better workout. quality over quantity anyday for me.

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by psyko1
i think it pretty much all depends on the individual, only you truly know what works for your body.

I would agree with you if you could show me someone that has a stonger bicep muscle than back muscle, a stonger tricep than pectoral. in this case it doesn't matter much about the indvidual because the general makeup of the bodies muscles are pretty much universal. now another issue would be whether the makeup of your muscles is more fast twitch or slow twitch, but that would affect the number of sets you would do and that is another issue in itself.

[Thor]

Originally posted by stonecold54
of course we all know how believable magazines are LOL. all people need to do is think about it. is the bicep a weak link in most back exercises? YES. would it help to pre-exhaust the stonger muscle to help alleviate some of the stength difference and reduce the weak links effect on the exercise as a whole? YES. pretty straight foward to me.

I have found Muscular Development to be very reliable as a science based research mag and do not think it should be dismissed as a source of knowledge. They do have a lot of half-naked babes too but I have seen plenty of ideas hit that mag before they hit the boards. Pre-exhaustion tires out the muscle without stimulating it for growth (kind of like running a couple of miles before doing squats, it will cause you to be able to lift less weight). I think the debate is still open and is not as absolute as you indicate. Just my 2 cc's, in general I have found your posts to be very informative, fact based and consistant with the knowledge I have acquired. There is always room for debate though...

[playthegame]

I always work my larger muscle groups before my smallers one...Example, back then bis. Seems like the logical thing to do, but thats just me!

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by Thor
I have found Muscular Development to be very reliable as a science based research mag and do not think it should be dismissed as a source of knowledge. They do have a lot of half-naked babes too but I have seen plenty of ideas hit that mag before they hit the boards. Pre-exhaustion tires out the muscle without stimulating it for growth (kind of like running a couple of miles before doing squats, it will cause you to be able to lift less weight). I think the debate is still open and is not as absolute as you indicate. Just my 2 cc's, in general I have found your posts to be very informative, fact based and consistant with the knowledge I have acquired. There is always room for debate though...

well I guess some of it would depend on how intense your pre-exhaustion was. I take the first part of the set to muscular failure. so if I do pullover for lats (which I find to be a good massbuilder on their own) I will do that set to failure and then jump right to the pulldowns and do that set to failure as well.

[Stonecold54]

Oh- thanks for the compliment too. :D

[goliath]

Originally posted by Thor
There is a lot of debate on the effectiveness of pre-exhaustion. I personally have achieved some great pumps from the technique that made me feel it was quite effective.

you would also get a great pump out of picking up a 10 lb DB and doing 200 reps - does that make it an effective muscle builder? no...

[goliath]

Originally posted by stonecold54
of course we all know how believable magazines are LOL.

#1. just because something is published in a mag does not make it BS. to think so is just plain ignorant.

#2. MD is actually a decent publication because the majority of the articles are nothing more than sumarized studies. so if a magazine that publishes sumarized studies is just BS to you, have fun living in your little glass bubble.