sooooo tired and frustrated and ready to cry

[redsquirrel]

I recommended the protein consumption to be around 200 first of all.

Secondly, she is wanting to MAINTAIN her muscle. If she is doing the amount of cardio and weights she is, she will end up where she was before: starvation mode. She has to be getting enough protein to maintain her muscularity, and not burn the muscle.

dick- if you thought my recommendations were not in line, you should have said something.

Also, you said yourself you've noticed your upper body getting better, so obviously something is working. You need to give your body AT LEAST 2-3 weeks to see a decent change. A woman's upper body will 99% of the time come around faster than the lower half, because the lower half is where most women store thier fat. It takes a long time to burn it off.

BTW- when I was dieting for my contest, i ate at least 250 gms of protein/ day to maintain the muscle and burn the fat. It wasn't until 5 weeks into the diet that I dropped my last meal. If you don't eat 3-4 hours before bed, you're talking at least 14 hours of fasting which will only lead to putting your body BACK into starvation mode. That is why I recommended the egg white meal, and a 12 HR fasting time. Long enough to burn fat, and NOT MUSCLE.

You've noticed differences, and like others said, just because the scale weight has increased doesn't mean shit. It sounds like you gained muscle and LOST FAT, which I thought was the goal. But then again, I must not know what the hell I'm talking about. Your protein consumption is fine. It accomodates your weight training, AND your cardio. You will not build muscle, you'll maintain it. And as I've told you before, you were doing too much cardio.

[dick0375]

Red-

The only reason I questioned the diet was because of the way I was feeling and looking. I seemed to be bloated all the time and I sometimes had to force myself to finish the food and then I feltl sick and lethargic and my muscles were swollen.

I think now that might have been due to overtraining (no rest days :) )

The positive about the diet is that I don't feel deprived and I'm never hungry and I actually feel like I eat too much (Oddly enough though, calorically speaking I'm just wondering if I should actually add more cals based on my BMR of 2500 cals and my activity

I have cut back cardio to 40-45 min 4 days a week and 15/20 min. of weight training.?)

Just trying to find a plan that works with my body - didn't mean to offend you.

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by dick0375
Red-

The only reason I questioned the diet was because of the way I was feeling and looking. I seemed to be bloated all the time and I sometimes had to force myself to finish the food and then I feltl sick and lethargic and my muscles were swollen.

I think now that might have been due to overtraining (no rest days :) )

The positive about the diet is that I don't feel deprived and I'm never hungry and I actually feel like I eat too much (Oddly enough though, calorically speaking I'm just wondering if I should actually add more cals based on my BMR of 2500 cals and my activity

I have cut back cardio to 40-45 min 4 days a week and 15/20 min. of weight training.?)

Just trying to find a plan that works with my body - didn't mean to offend you.

It's not necessarily that I'm offended, but when I take the time to write out a diet, I expect someone to follow it for the most part. If they have questions, I do my best to answer them. I'm not as thorough with others who ask for help. I will commit to someone who I feel has the discipline to follow a stringent diet.

In the first couple of weeks, you will feel a little full.....almost like you are bulking. Your body has to get used to you not starving it all the time. One of the main goals here is to get your body to a point where it is constantly burning just about whatever you put in it. Once your body does adjust, you will notice yourself getting hungry sometimes just 2 hours after your last meal. If you are feeling sick from the additional food, try cutting back each portion for the time being. And in a couple of weeks, we may even throw in a cheat meal.

The number for your BMR can be deceiving. That number is not one for someone who wants to lose weight. That's the number you should eat to maintain your body how it is. Also, since you have cut back the cardio and increased your protein, I would say you could increase your weight training by 5-10 minutes. As for the bloatedness, increase your water intake, and it should subside.

I know you don't know what to expect, so just try and be patient and let the diet do it's work. Trust the advice and guidance I have given you. I promise you it will work.

[GearTripper]

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[cowgirl]

Geez Gear, just because it's a tight diet doesn't mean Dick is so weak willed that she shouldn't even try it.

Her coming on the board & even mentioning Red's diet & how she thinks it is wrong for her is just plain RUDE! Red put time into this & at least Dick could have said "thanks but no thanks" instead of posting the way she did.

My last point is that Red's phylosiphy on diet/muscle/protien/cardio is what women need to be doing, not the starvation mode style of thinking that spirals a woman into a "fat-skinny" person.

I lost 28lbs while slowly increasing my calories. So it can be done. I guarentee it's a better life choice than having to always eat 1200 cals and loosing whatever tiny amount of muscle that you DO have! Sure I'm into muscle building & Dick might not be, but with as little muscle as she is sporting I doubt the 6-8 rep range with super heavy weights would hurt her. We all know it takes years to get big.

It might actually build some muscle & burn some calories rather than your style of burn the muscle & cut the calories.

[sana]

Originally posted by GearTripper
holy cow... i'm not sure what to say except the i highly disagree with the advice that was given...

160 lb., bf% estimated at 20-23%

20-23%bf... estimated, which is probably moreso in reality. don't mean to sound mean, but the majority of individulas don't have a clue as to accurately measuring their bodyfat ratio. what muscle is she trying to maintain? there's absolutely no logical reason why she would need to consume anywhere near 200 grams of protein per day. she's not a body-builder, not doing fitness competitions, not a model in fitness, at least not that i'm aware of or have been informed. "real" people need diets with "real" food or the diets won't work. what average person is gonna eat egg whites three times a day for months at a time. the average person isn't that disciplined... or they wouldn't be average and on here asking for help. hell, why not tell her throw in some anavar while she's at it? and if she's really desperate, some test.. then we'll go into some clen and eca stacks and maybe some anti-e's to battle the bloat. she's a normal person first and foremost. i just don't know where to go with this anymore. i stand by my suggestions.

why do you have to get so militant towards ideas you don't agree with?

you don't agree with one simple point - the total amount of protein intake this girl needs to preserve muscle while losing fat. and you insinuate that RS is recommending ECA and anavar? give me a fucking break.

if indeed she wants to look "tone" this means she wants to look like a girl with muscle and low body fat. there are two seperate parts to this equation. and as anyone here would tell you - you can only do one thing at a time successfully. if she already has not much muscle - there's nothing wrong with her trying to preserve her muscle while she diets by keeping her protein intake high. the "high" is a relative thing that she needs to find for herself. high for me is about 180 grams which actually builds muscle on me.

from having seen pics of your girlfriend, i understand that you like women who don't look like they have much muscle - so while you may put your girlfriend on a diet that gives her say 100grams of protein a day - it doesn't mean that's necessairly what this girl needs. you haven't see her picture, and you're not completely clear of what her goal is other than to shed bf. each body style that is desired is achieve by eating different diets.

and honestly - the diet she outlined from RS isn't even that bad. it has fruits and moderate carbs. it is not a starvation or a horribly hard to follow diet. if she feels that 200 grams a day of protein is honestly too much for her - she's a grown up and can try to tweak the protein intake to see what works best for her.

why in the world you would come off so militant is beyond me.

[redsquirrel]

Thanks CG and sana. I appreciate your words very much.

To piggy back on what CG said, this girl has been eating like a bird, and has been overtraining. The increase in protein consumption is to preserve her muscle that she has been burning for quite sometime. This point I reitterated SEVERAL times.

I recommended her protein intake at 200 gms. SHE WEIGHS 160!!!! So, in all actuality, she is eating 1.25 gms per lb of bodyweight. That recommendation is just enough to maintain her muscle and not burn it with all of the cardio she is doing. Hell, most women who work out are told by trainers to eat .8 - 1.0 gms per bodyweight. Where you got the information she is eating too much protein is beyond me.

GT- Dick's initial request was a cycle of Anavar, which we all greatly dissuaded her from, so that argument is a moot poin, and I don't appreciate the insinuation.

If you read in her intital posts, she says she is naturally muscular and doesn't want to build any more muscle, she wants to maintain her look and drop BF. Anyone who has ever dieted and tried to maintain their muscle surely knows it's an uphill battle. The key being to supply your body w/ enough protein to maintain the muscle and lose the BF....so your recommendation to drop the protein is invalid. And please point out WHERE it says she is supposed to eat eggs 3 times a day. The 1st and the last meal are the only egg meals.

And I agree that the militant attitude is not appreciated whatsoever.

[dick0375]

I seemed to have sparked quite a debate. I'm sorry for even questioning the diet in the first place, but I did b/c I was not feeling well. As Red pointed out, this is new territory for me and I am scared and consufed about the unknown. I've had to change my whole way of thinking and eating and it is unnerving when you're trying to recover from disordered eating and now suddenly you are told to consume 200g of protein and 1500 cals. I DO trust red and I DO have the will power to stick with this diet. Once again I thank you for all the help!

BTW - today, I noticed that I seemed to get hungry every 2 hours like you mentioned. I think my body is adapting to EATING!!

The other thing is that I just read the post by sana on my thread regarding weighing food. The diet specifies 6 oz. of chicken. I've been consuming 6 oz. of COOKED chicken - a value of about 50 g of protein. When you gave me the 200 g of protein value for the diet I didn't see where that numer was coming from. I always calculated it to be 230 or so. Now I get it!! I've been eating too much protein and it might be the reason why I was not feeling well. I've got it right now though - 6 oz. of raw chicken and 3.8 oz. of COOKED is around 32g of protein !! Tomorrow is the once again the start of a new diet on the correct protein count!!

[GearTripper]

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[GearTripper]

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[sana]

Originally posted by GearTripper
if you think was i typed was "militant"... then i feel for your partners in life... heaven forbid they ever speak their mind for fear of the resoudning shock waves that might happen. was reply wasn't meant to be "militant" - but rather just that i highly highly highly disagree with the amount of protein needed to consume the amount of muscle she MIGHT have.

that was NOT why i thought you were being militant.

Originally posted by GearTripper
hell, why not tell her throw in some anavar while she's at it? and if she's really desperate, some test.. then we'll go into some clen and eca stacks and maybe some anti-e's to battle the bloat.

THIS is where you came off as being an asshole and being militant towards RS's advice.

NOWHERE did she ever mention that she should do anything other than getting a diet that works and getting her training down pat.

we can have a civil and very good debate about the "optimal" amount of protein - no one will call you names. but we will gang up and get protective when you start insinuating that we're morons trying to dole out magic pill advice.

[GearTripper]

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[sana]

Originally posted by GearTripper
what's with the name-calling... some moderator you are. i never mentioned any names in any of my posts... only you girls did the name-calling towards me. and i wasn't insinuating anything except that horrible advice was given, which i still firmly believe. i just gave my opinions and let it be. seems as though i should've known better then to try and help out here. go ahead and delete my posts then. i'll stay out of the girlie section from now on... too tired to keep dealing with ignorance and closed-mindedness... and name-calling.

i said you came off as an asshole by being militant. this to me is not name calling. i'm telling you the impression i got from you from your actions.

no one here is being closed minded - we are however offended by the way you decided to "call out" RS's advice. if you don't think the way that you responded to RS in what could have been a civil debate in an inappropriate manner, i feel sorry for the people around you because you obviously don't know what the word tact means.

from my first post i said you could disagree on what the optimal amount of protein intake was. open your eyes and see that you are the one who started slinging mud around.

aside from the ONE SOLE issue of protein consumption - which is up for debate - what else was given that was bad advice from RS? if she thought the protein was too much - she could easily reduce the amount of chicken or turkey she ate at each meal and still have a very nice maintainable diet.

don't try to cry wolf and say we jumped all over you while you were trying to help. you were obviously being combative towards RS's advice by bringing up the anavar and test comments.

you just don't get why i decided to interject and tell you that your response was militant. and if this explanation still isn't clear enough - then you're obvioulsy choosing not to read what's being typed to you.

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by GearTripper
only you girls did the name-calling towards me. and i wasn't insinuating anything except that horrible advice was given, which i still firmly believe.

1- I never called you any name.

2- I'm sorry you feel it's such horrible advice. But here's the really funny thing: IT'S WORKING FOR HER. If you will read above, dick mentioned that once she realized she was eating too much protein due to the cooked weight, it was much more feasible for her to do the diet.

- And here's my personal favorite-

She also said she IS now hungry by eating MORE FOOD, which is the whole intent of this diet. She didn't believe me, but she stuck with it because she TRUSTED my advice. And look what happened-WHAT I SAID WOULD HAPPEN WAS HAPPENING. She's getting hungry every 2 hours. God forbid we try to train her body to burn what she puts in it in order to burn fat and preserve muscle. Let's forget the fact we are teaching her the basics of dieting.

So again, this resorts back to what you have put program you have put your g/f on, not this girl. I've seen your g.f pics as well, and she's very slender. You yourself said most of the time she eats 130-150. I guarantee your g/f weighs no more than 140 lbs. So, she eats 1+ gms of protein per lb of BW. SO PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE DIET I WROTE IS SO EXTREMELY DIFFERENT. Because they sound pretty close in content.

I'm not saying she's a bodybuilder, so that's why she's not eating the amount of protein a bodybuilder would eat. THAT recommendation is 1.5-2 gms.