Basic Cycle Advice...

[coffee-guy]

I've got a friend who recently started competing in the last year - currently 5'1" and 113 with +/- 14% bf looking to go from figure to bbing condition in the next 15 weeks - her diet is definitely in check and her workouts are as well....

The problem is that she has received advice telling her to run winny by itself and I just didn't think that would be smart for her as it seems to be pretty damn harsh on a woman......

What would be the best stack/cycle for her first go round but that will also get her down into the 7% range for bb'ing by the first of July etc? I was thinking some primobolan and small doses of anavar????

Please help!

[beefcake]

I have heard of women taking small doses of winny for comp purposes, however you do have to take into account that it is a dht derivative. It's really up to her as far as whether she's willing to deal with the virilization that is possible. RS probably knows more info about it.

[redsquirrel]

Thanks, BC...

Fog-

You're right on with your cycle suggestion. 50mg of Primo E3D, and 5/10mgs of Var for 6-8 weeks should give her some decent gains. I had great success running them concurrently. Retarded animal in the gym. Don't run it for more than 8 weeks, because it will take at least 2 weeks to drop the water weight w/ the Primo. It's not as bad as Winny, but as with most AAS, you hold water. Doing Winny alone is not going to get her where she needs to be. She needs to be at least 110 on stage at her height (which I'm sure you know). I was 125 on stage at 5'4", and could've been heavier...(But I wanted to be at the top of the middle's! :) )They say 5 lbs for every inch...

Now, my other suggestion would be EQ. EQ wouldn't be as harsh as the combo cycle above, but there is more water weight involved, so you may only want to run it for 6 weeks. With Primo & EQ both, my voice got squeaky. If you want to run that, I'd ramp up w/ 75 mg/wk for the 1st 2 weeks, 100mgs the next 4 weeks, and back down to 75mg for the last 2 weeks. I had good gains with the EQ as well. As for which one was better, they were too far apart for me to give you an accurate assessment.

As for the virilization, IMHO- I think Primo is just about the same as Winny when it comes to harshness on a woman's body. Winny tends to make women hold more water & more acne than Primo, and can be hard on the liver. Whereas running them both together will be potentially as harsh, but with more gain & reward.

I'm sure you know this as well, but in order for her to really benefit from this, her calories have got to be at an all time high. I really noticed the difference in gains from week to week if my diet wasn't on point. So, it just may not be conducive to her situation right now seeing as how you have to keep her BF somewhat manageable due to the show. I mean, I just don't think she has enough time to drop the BF AND gain at the same time. I know it's possible, but I know if I was putting my body at risk, and not maximizing the benefit, I wouldn't be too keen on the idea....just my .02

[coffee-guy]

Thanks for all of the help/detail y'all. Unfortunately, she isn't going to be able to get her hands on Primo until it is too late. She can get enough T-bol and Anavar now so that she can be ready in 9 weeks from tomorrow. She is already in really good shape with enough muscle to do well so gaining won't be an issue - just maintaining while losing fat.

Since T-bol and Anavar is all she can get (and some clen) I was thinking T-bol at 10mg ed and Anavar at 12.5mg ed (half a 25mg tab) all the way up until 4 days out as she is doing 3 shows all two weeks apart so she can't start dropping things 2 weeks out as it would be pointless to go back on etc. She isn't thrilled about taking Winny due to the sides but since the doses would be so low I could give her what I would have left over and she could run it at 5mg ed throughout. Do you think she should leave the Winny out completely since she is running the other two orals or just do all three as outlined?

What do you think with the above scenario/limitations?

[redsquirrel]

Not to put it bluntly- oh wait- that's what I do best ;)...BUT- honestly if she is 114lbs right now, it doesn't matter how much gas you put her on, she's barely going to be 100lbs on stage after the contest diet. I mean, if she was competing in figure, all due respect, she probably doesn't have the muscle needed right now for BBing. I guess that's really besides the point in what you're asking. I'm just trying to be real with you so you can make the best decision for her.

In all honesty- don't waste your money on the T-bol. IMHO-It's totally worthless You could always do a Var/Winny cycle. The Var will help lean her up a bit, but I would take 10-15 mgs/day paired with the Winny....that seems to be all you can get your hands on, correct? Again, even a quick 6 week cycle of EQ would be optimum, (calories moderate to high to optimize results), and then following it up w/ a few weeks of Var.

My other word of caution is the spacing between shows. If they were a week apart, I would say you're fine. The potential problem could be rebounding. I'm not talking about the diet- because she will stay on the diet, obviously. I'm talking mostly about the water rebound. All I'm saying it's a risk. She might have better placings if she did 2 shows, 4 weeks apart. Sonis did 2 a week apart, and I did 2 3 weeks apart. We both came in NAILS for the 2nd of the 2 shows. For me, I had more time to lose BF. For sonis, he kept his water low the whole week to prevent rebound. But, with her shows 2 weeks apart, I just think it's risk.

[coffee-guy]

Not to put it bluntly- oh wait- that's what I do best ;)...BUT- honestly if she is 114lbs right now, it doesn't matter how much gas you put her on, she's barely going to be 100lbs on stage after the contest diet. I mean, if she was competing in figure, all due respect, she probably doesn't have the muscle needed right now for BBing. I guess that's really besides the point in what you're asking. I'm just trying to be real with you so you can make the best decision for her.

In all honesty- don't waste your money on the T-bol. IMHO-It's totally worthless You could always do a Var/Winny cycle. The Var will help lean her up a bit, but I would take 10-15 mgs/day paired with the Winny....that seems to be all you can get your hands on, correct? Again, even a quick 6 week cycle of EQ would be optimum, (calories moderate to high to optimize results), and then following it up w/ a few weeks of Var.

My other word of caution is the spacing between shows. If they were a week apart, I would say you're fine. The potential problem could be rebounding. I'm not talking about the diet- because she will stay on the diet, obviously. I'm talking mostly about the water rebound. All I'm saying it's a risk. She might have better placings if she did 2 shows, 4 weeks apart. Sonis did 2 a week apart, and I did 2 3 weeks apart. We both came in NAILS for the 2nd of the 2 shows. For me, I had more time to lose BF. For sonis, he kept his water low the whole week to prevent rebound. But, with her shows 2 weeks apart, I just think it's risk.

She's pretty thick to be honest - maybe not what she should be but she has been natural up until this point and just wants an edge as she got started on the diet/prep LATE...

She can get 25mg var tabs - just thought the half tab would be a better dose - are you suggesting 25mg would be okay?

If so it would be 25mg var with 5mg to 10mg winny for the duration (I will let her decide what to do about rebound etc)....

[redsquirrel]

She's pretty thick to be honest - maybe not what she should be but she has been natural up until this point and just wants an edge as she got started on the diet/prep LATE...

She can get 25mg var tabs - just thought the half tab would be a better dose - are you suggesting 25mg would be okay?

If so it would be 25mg var with 5mg to 10mg winny for the duration (I will let her decide what to do about rebound etc)....

Hmmm.... ok, well if she's pretty thick, then the Var should do her some good. Based on your comments, it sounds like you're looking to lean her up even more, yes? 12.5 mgs will maintain the muscle. When I ran it w/ the Primo, I didn't take more than 10mgs/day. I wouldn't recommend 25mgs, though; especially with the Winny. In fact, even when I ran it by itself, I never went over 15.

Now, as for the Winny, I would cut that out about 3 weeks before her 1st show. She will get a lot more virilization with the Winny, so prepare her; especially if she is natural.. I would ramp the var...With 25 mgs in 1 tab, for the 1st week, she'll have to split it into fours. Then for the bulking weeeks, so to speak, I would have her do 12.5-18.75, then back down to the 6.25mg for the tapering weeks.

[coffee-guy]

Thanks a lot RS - I will make sure to get her and her husband on here to post pics and educate themselves for the next time instead of relying on me :rolleyes:...

[FitnessBrat]

Just curious Red - why do you say the tbol is worthless?

[coffee-guy]

Just curious Red - why do you say the tbol is worthless?

Bumpity bump bump...

[redsquirrel]

Just curious Red - why do you say the tbol is worthless?

Just what I've heard....the side effects can be somewhat harsh on a woman, and for the gains, or lack thereof; it just isn't worth the money. Tbol can be really hard on the liver, and there are equal or lesser drugs that can yield the same or better results.