Running any cycles girls?

[Bouncer]

Red, FB, WW, Ohhannah, any of you running or planning a cycle? If so, what kind of cycle?

[redsquirrel]

Negative....maybe some Clen/T3.

It's baby time again, so this is my 3rd month taking Clomid. Can't really add any other hormones into the mix..... :(

[FitnessBrat]

Nothing for me either. Possibly some clen further into my diet.

[Bouncer]

bump for hannah, she is the druggy in the bunch. :P

[OhHannah]

Oh hai, been recovering from some moderately nasty injuries and avoiding even looking at bodybuilding sites since it was depressing as hell not to be able to work out. I'm glad that I was actually on the very tail end of a Deca cycle when I got ripped up, since the healing progressed remarkably well. Nandrolone isn't the ideal drug for severe trauma patients, as it was tested pretty extensively for that specific purpose and failed to show significant improvement in mortality/morbidity rates. But it does speed up protein synthesis, so as a recovery aid for outpatients with some really nasty deep gashes and punctures it was a pretty good boost.

My first cycle went very well with extremely minimal sides. I got zits a couple of times, but that was about it. I slowly ramped up from 25mg to 75 mg towards the end, doing mostly 7 to 10 day intervals, ready to back off if anything happened that I didn't like. Nothing did, so I'm going clean for at least six weeks and then thinking about doing some low-dose oral Winny (5mg split into two daily doses) and low to moderate dose Deca (50mg/week).

Currently I'm cutting and it sucks hairy donkey balls, so I'm very grumpy. I'm pretty much eating the same crap I was when I was bulking, raw oats and chicken breasts and tuna and cottage cheese and all that junk, but with no more treats or cheat meals, no more brown rice or sweet potatoes, and carbs only in the morning and just before or after a workout. I hate my food, and double cardio on "rest" days is really the suck.

[redsquirrel]

Currently I'm cutting and it sucks hairy donkey balls, so I'm very grumpy. I'm pretty much eating the same crap I was when I was bulking, raw oats and chicken breasts and tuna and cottage cheese and all that junk, but with no more treats or cheat meals, no more brown rice or sweet potatoes, and carbs only in the morning and just before or after a workout. I hate my food, and double cardio on "rest" days is really the suck.

Wow. That's a pretty rough cuttng diet. Are you doing a show soon? IMHO, that diet seems a tad extreme. Even when cutting, you can still eat the carbs you mentioned above. Just possibly less of them at each meal. I personally, would also throw in a cheat meal once a week. You will go insane if you're not eating enough carbs AND not having a cheat meal.

[Bouncer]

i agree, cutting out even brown rice and sweet potatoes will almost definitely lead to muscle loss and a slowed metabolism.

[redsquirrel]

Exactly.

What about healthy fats, Hannah? How much of those are you getting?

[OhHannah]

I cut out brown rice because it's a bad trigger food for me. I have one of those rice hot pots that keeps it fresh and tempting and steaming, and since it's impossible to make just a few portions at a time in that thing, the rice hangs around for days and tempts me late in the evening when I don't want carbs with my meals. I like the stuff too damn much to have it around while I'm cutting.

I could probably add sweet potatoes back in without too much fuss, but my carb count is pretty okay where it is.

I'm getting my carbs mainly in a morning meal that usually involves cottage cheese mixed with raw oats and a sprinkling of raisins or prunes, since that's the quickest to prepare. Sometimes it will be an organic 4-grain hot cereal with flax, or two Kashi whole grain and flax frozen waffles with sugar free syrup. The protein component of breakfast is either egg whites or a protein shake. I might grab a grapefruit or an apple here also, especially if I'm working out soon. If I want to add healthy fats here it would be walnuts, almonds, flaxseed oil or coconut oil. I've pre-mixed some coconut and flax oil with Splenda and cinnamon for a delicious "cinnamon butter" that I can use on hot cereal or waffles. In a pinch breakfast will be a protein shake and a piece of fruit on the run.

Midmorning my carb source might be either fruit or yogurt, and I generally have a serving of an antioxidant fruit juice or powdered fruit/veg drink. Protein source may be a hardboiled egg or egg whites, chicken breast or tuna. If I have time for something more solid then I might do a low carb tortilla wrap or a melt on whole grain bread with tuna and nonfat cheese, or chicken and mustard, something like that. Salads are nice too if I have time. If I'm too busy the midmorning meal is out of a blender. Snacks early in the day can also involve dried fruit and nuts.

Lunch is when I start to ease down on the carb intake and up the fats some, so it's probably something like a salad with lots of veggies and either some olive oil in the dressing or some lean red meat on top that has a healthy fat profile (organic small farm raised and grass fed, or wild game), a tuna melt with a little flaxseed oil mayonnaise, or if I'm busy, some nonfat cottage cheese with a tablespoon of walnuts or peanut butter and sugar free chocolate syrup. If it's a heavy workout day I can have more carbs here, if not I don't.

Snacks between lunch and dinner generally involve meat, fish, eggs or vegetables. If I need some more fats they could also involve nuts. I may also indulge in a little more dried fruit here if I have a sweet tooth and want "dessert", but mostly I try to save the fruit for earlier in the day unless I'm just about to hit a second cardio session.

Dinner could be any meat and veg, and since I have a freezer full of very nice grass fed red meat, that's very often it. I like beef fajitas with plenty of peppers, squash and tomatoes. I also made a nice salmon casserole with peas, capers, a small amount of high fiber/low carb bread crumbs, pureed cauliflower and a sprinkle of reduced fat Parmesan cheese.

If I'm hungry a few hours after dinner, I will have another meal. Lately I've been having a small bowl of fat free refried beans with a slice of nonfat cheese melted over it, and some salsa.

Dessert is a small square of dark chocolate, generally the no sugar added kind (baking chocolate), half a glass of red wine, and perhaps some walnuts if I am still hungry.

[OhHannah]

Wow. That's a pretty rough cuttng diet. Are you doing a show soon? IMHO, that diet seems a tad extreme. Even when cutting, you can still eat the carbs you mentioned above. Just possibly less of them at each meal. I personally, would also throw in a cheat meal once a week. You will go insane if you're not eating enough carbs AND not having a cheat meal.

I gained about 20 pounds while on a 4 month long clean bulk with one cheat meal a week. 8 weeks of that was assisted with low dose Deca. Some of that may be water retention and some of that may have to do with coming in with a high body fat percentage to start with. I'm not interested in competing at all, and my goals are not typical.

It's usually a better idea to cut before bulking, but I am flat out not willing to drop below a weight threshold that will make it difficult or dangerous for me to do my job. I need physical strength and some solid weight on me a lot more than I need to look like a figure model. I was a lot more comfortable looking fat for a few months than I would have been with taking too much fat away before I had a chance to make up some of that weight with muscle. The accident that ripped me up last month would very likely have killed or crippled me if I'd only weighed 100 lbs. I would eat to get fatter on purpose if I couldn't keep some substantial muscle weight on my frame. Fortunately with my metabolism that's stupidly easy.

I'm old (pushing 40) and an endo/mesomorph, so I put on and keep both fat and muscle pretty easily. I don't lose either very quickly, so if I don't restrict the carbs and pretty much eliminate the cheat meals, I'm pretty well hosed for losing fat. Now that I've put enough muscle back on that I won't be a ridiculously skinny shrimp when I cut the body fat down, I'm finally starting with the cutting. Double cardio and pre-breakfast cardio on rest days, single cardio session on heavy lifting days, 500-1,000 kcal deficit daily mostly through exercise. I get enough to eat even though the food sucks, and any time I'm hungry I just have another small clean protein based meal. I'm still lifting heavy 3X a week with one lighter session a week that's mostly core work. The cardio is all HIIT or intervals, and sessions last from 15 minutes to 45 minutes, usually on the shorter side.

I suspect that at my age and with my metabolism I don't have lots of other choices if I want to get any cutting accomplished. I'm giving my body six weeks or so to clear the Deca, then hopping on some Winny and possibly adding Deca back in. Carefully. Very carefully. The effects are synergistic because oral Winny lowers SHBG which frees up testosterone, potentially increasing androgenic effect. If I could get my hands on the injectable form I'd use that, but at the moment the oral is what I can get.

I've considered other cutting agents but I'd prefer to keep my blood pressure in check as I watch it closely. So far no problems, but I'm reluctant to add clean to the mix for that reason. Meddling with my thyroid also disturbs me, so cytomel is also not an attractive option. Not thrilled with my risk profile for HgH either.

[redsquirrel]

I cut out brown rice because it's a bad trigger food for me. I have one of those rice hot pots that keeps it fresh and tempting and steaming, and since it's impossible to make just a few portions at a time in that thing, the rice hangs around for days and tempts me late in the evening when I don't want carbs with my meals. I like the stuff too damn much to have it around while I'm cutting.

I could probably add sweet potatoes back in without too much fuss, but my carb count is pretty okay where it is.

I'm getting my carbs mainly in a morning meal that usually involves cottage cheese mixed with raw oats and a sprinkling of raisins or prunes, since that's the quickest to prepare. Sometimes it will be an organic 4-grain hot cereal with flax, or two Kashi whole grain and flax frozen waffles with sugar free syrup. The protein component of breakfast is either egg whites or a protein shake. I might grab a grapefruit or an apple here also, especially if I'm working out soon. If I want to add healthy fats here it would be walnuts, almonds, flaxseed oil or coconut oil. I've pre-mixed some coconut and flax oil with Splenda and cinnamon for a delicious "cinnamon butter" that I can use on hot cereal or waffles. In a pinch breakfast will be a protein shake and a piece of fruit on the run.

Midmorning my carb source might be either fruit or yogurt, and I generally have a serving of an antioxidant fruit juice or powdered fruit/veg drink. Protein source may be a hardboiled egg or egg whites, chicken breast or tuna. If I have time for something more solid then I might do a low carb tortilla wrap or a melt on whole grain bread with tuna and nonfat cheese, or chicken and mustard, something like that. Salads are nice too if I have time. If I'm too busy the midmorning meal is out of a blender. Snacks early in the day can also involve dried fruit and nuts.

Lunch is when I start to ease down on the carb intake and up the fats some, so it's probably something like a salad with lots of veggies and either some olive oil in the dressing or some lean red meat on top that has a healthy fat profile (organic small farm raised and grass fed, or wild game), a tuna melt with a little flaxseed oil mayonnaise, or if I'm busy, some nonfat cottage cheese with a tablespoon of walnuts or peanut butter and sugar free chocolate syrup. If it's a heavy workout day I can have more carbs here, if not I don't.

Snacks between lunch and dinner generally involve meat, fish, eggs or vegetables. If I need some more fats they could also involve nuts. I may also indulge in a little more dried fruit here if I have a sweet tooth and want "dessert", but mostly I try to save the fruit for earlier in the day unless I'm just about to hit a second cardio session.

Dinner could be any meat and veg, and since I have a freezer full of very nice grass fed red meat, that's very often it. I like beef fajitas with plenty of peppers, squash and tomatoes. I also made a nice salmon casserole with peas, capers, a small amount of high fiber/low carb bread crumbs, pureed cauliflower and a sprinkle of reduced fat Parmesan cheese.

If I'm hungry a few hours after dinner, I will have another meal. Lately I've been having a small bowl of fat free refried beans with a slice of nonfat cheese melted over it, and some salsa.

Dessert is a small square of dark chocolate, generally the no sugar added kind (baking chocolate), half a glass of red wine, and perhaps some walnuts if I am still hungry.

Sounds like you have it pretty well down pat. I did also read the post following this.

First off, it's imperative for you to get a little more protein & solid food at your morning meal. Protein shakes are digested pretty quickly, so if you have to have one, make sure you get a complex carb with it. I would, however, still suggest you add in some more complex carbs later in the day as well. Right now, you're really only getting the oats in the morning. Cottage cheese & fruits are simple sugars...Also, one thing to remember as well is to choose one energy source. Like, for one of the meals you mentioned you have a tuna melt w/ flax mayo or fajita's. Well, since you're eating both carbs and fats from the flax, your body may be more prone to storing fat at this meal instead of burning. When you only eat one source of energy, that's what your body will burn. So, when you eat red meat, pair it w/ veggies instead of a potato. Or, when you have chicken, you can have rice or sweet potato & veggies. would stay away from the breads. The wheat gluten in these items doesn't really help when cutting. :)

[redsquirrel]

Also- how long is your fasting time?

[OhHannah]

Also- how long is your fasting time?

My fasting time? Well, I sleep for 7-8 hours, get up and do 15-20 minutes of HIIT cardio, then eat breakfast. Thereafter I'm eating every 3-4 hours through the day until I go to sleep again. So not very long.

[OhHannah]

Sounds like you have it pretty well down pat. I did also read the post following this.

First off, it's imperative for you to get a little more protein & solid food at your morning meal. Protein shakes are digested pretty quickly, so if you have to have one, make sure you get a complex carb with it.

Egg whites is the default breakfast protein, but sometimes I'm short on time and breakfast has to be out of the blender. When that happens I try to throw some crap in there like cottage cheese, and I've been known to do tuna and tomato shakes.

I would, however, still suggest you add in some more complex carbs later in the day as well. Right now, you're really only getting the oats in the morning.

I'm used to stripping my carbs pretty darn low, so I'm not sure I'll get decent cutting results if I raise my carbs any higher. Remember that I'm 3F - fat, forty and female, not a good combination. I do get additional pre and post workout carbs.

Like, for one of the meals you mentioned you have a tuna melt w/ flax mayo or fajita's. Well, since you're eating both carbs and fats from the flax, your body may be more prone to storing fat at this meal instead of burning.

Uh....flax oil has carbs? My recipe for a tuna melt (two portions) involves a can of tuna, a few slices of pickle, capers or chopped cucumber, some nonfat cheese and a bit less than a tablespoon of flax mayo. I do eat some ground flax meal which has a few carbs, but not in great quantity. My fajitas contain meat, peppers, squash, garlic, onions and tomatoes. I don't generally bother with a tortilla even though I have low carb/high fiber ones on hand.

So, when you eat red meat, pair it w/ veggies instead of a potato. Or, when you have chicken, you can have rice or sweet potato & veggies. would stay away from the breads. The wheat gluten in these items doesn't really help when cutting. :)

Good advice. I know some people are gluten sensitive, but is this true for everyone? I'm not a huge bread fan, but it's convenient and easy to keep around, and there are some very good healthy bread products available locally with sprouted grains and flax and bran and such.

[Bouncer]

Uh....flax oil has carbs?

i think she was talking about the tuna melt. she assumed the tuna melt had wheat bread. thats what she was saying had the carbs. at least thats how i understood it.