anavar makes me mean

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by spidey
How is there a difference between exogenous and endogenous hormones?

You dont know the difference between endogenous and exogenous? There's a pretty significant difference between the hormones your body produces and articifical hormones in a vial. When you have a baseline testosterone level and you're adding to that from an outside source, the overall testosterone level goes up, still with me? Can anyone here provide adequate research showing anything beyond the baseline tesoterone level increases aggression? Doubt it, but I have plenty that show no relationship between raised testosterone, etc. and aggression. Somehow I thought people here would be a little more intelligent than to buy into the roid rage myth. whew.

As to the theme of the initial post, he claimed it made him feel mean. That sounds like a MOOD to me

"Mean" sounds like aggressive to me. Aggression isnt really a mood. Moods are generally happy, depressed, somber, angry (angry & aggressive arent comparable), etc.

Now, moods can certainly make aggression more likely. Think about it; are you more likely to hit someone who is pissing you off or would you be more likely to just randomly attack someone without any provocation? Being in a pissed off mood can certainly make aggression more likely. Since we have established that hormone levels definately can affect MOOD and mood can make aggression more likely, it logically follows that hormones can indirectly make aggression more likely (through the effects on mood).

You can mix and match the words any way you'd like, it still does constitute blaming anabolic use on roid rage. Maybe I leaped over too quickly and assumed the individual did things he normally didnt do because he felt the anabolics increased his aggression. I have done several anabolics, several PHs, etc. and noticed nothing, maybe a slight better sense of weel being. If anything, steroid would make one have a better sense of well being.

[nb]

Dbol said var was making him mean (a MOOD). Why is it such a stretch for you to acknowledge it could really be the var? Is it because you have a preexisting belief that AAS CAN'T cause aggression?[/b]

Why is it so simple for you to assume and blame steroids for this? Its easy to conform, its harder to research for yourself and contradict things. Evidence suggesting no increased aggression on aanbolics far outweighs that saying aggression is increased.

You can stubbornly put your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge the evidence that steroids can affect mood (and therefore aggression) but you won't convince anyone who has experienced it or seen it first hand.

Or you can lay down and pretend steroids do cause increased aggression.... Im not trying to convince anyone, opinions and emperical feedback are essentially irrelevant in this world. Youll see that oneday.

[Bouncer]

YJ, you can be a very helpful member and I think its easy to see that you know what your talking about. But your problem is that when your giving your advice, ie in this thread you are comming across as flamming anyone that believes steroids affect mood and agression. In other words, your flaming me because I happen to believe that also. Were in my post did I say anything negative to you? This is a post people can learn alot from but its starting to turn a little heated. Just relax a bit and state the facts that you have without the BS attitude towards anyone that dosent believe the same thing you do.

With that said, YJ please explain to me how hormones such as testosterone and estrogen do not effect mood which leads to agression and other behaviors? I think its safe to say that I have done more AAS, HGH, slin etc then you and I can tell you that agression, sadness, depression, and many other things go up and down when on higher doses and lower doses.

Take for example menopause, I dont know about you bro but I have seen women go threw menopause including my own mother and I can tell you that by the change in her hormonal levels that she acted different then she ever had before. She became much more confrontaional and down right agressive then ever before.

This is no flame bro, and we are all here to learn. If you think about what I said above about menopause you will see the relation between hormone levels and the way it can effect behavior. Steroids are no different, they effect hormone levels just as menopause would. For you to say that hormones have no effect on agression, depression, sadness, and many other feelings, emotions, and actions is just wrong.

[sana]

Originally posted by YellowJacket

"Mean" sounds like aggressive to me. Aggression isnt really a mood. Moods are generally happy, depressed, somber, angry (angry & aggressive arent comparable), etc.

.

mood and agression are not the same thing you are right. this is because mood is a sense within oneself, and agression is an act carried out by oneself.

moods can effect how you react.

therefore, your bad mood can most definitely have an effect on your actions - whether it be agression or passive agression or apathy.

btw - are you on cycle? i sense some passive "agressive" attitudes coming off you in this post :)

[spidey]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
You dont know the difference between endogenous and exogenous? There's a pretty significant difference between the hormones your body produces and articifical hormones in a vial. When you have a baseline testosterone level and you're adding to that from an outside source, the overall testosterone level goes up, still with me? Can anyone here provide adequate research showing anything beyond the baseline tesoterone level increases aggression? Doubt it, but I have plenty that show no relationship between raised testosterone, etc. and aggression. Somehow I thought people here would be a little more intelligent than to buy into the roid rage myth. whew.

Please, don't patronize me. At least until you stuff 8 or 9 years of college and and 15 years of research under your belt. Of course I know the difference between exogenous and endogenous. My point, which you refuse to see, is that in the end, it doesn't matter where the hormone comes from. Once it is in your system, the body doesn't have any way of telling where it originated from. The overall levels of hormone in the body is what affects mood.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
"Mean" sounds like aggressive to me. Aggression isnt really a mood. Moods are generally happy, depressed, somber, angry (angry & aggressive arent comparable), etc.

That was entirely my point. Aggression isn't a mood. Aggression is an ACT. "Feeling mean" is not aggression. It's just being in a bad MOOD.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
You can mix and match the words any way you'd like, it still does constitute blaming anabolic use on roid rage. Maybe I leaped over too quickly and assumed the individual did things he normally didnt do because he felt the anabolics increased his aggression. I have done several anabolics, several PHs, etc. and noticed nothing, maybe a slight better sense of weel being. If anything, steroid would make one have a better sense of well being.

I am not making a case for "roid rage". I am simply asserting that hormone levels are linked with mood. There is a veritable mountain of evidence for this association both acedotal and medical. Do a search on "mood and hormone" on PUBMED and tell me how many hits you get.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Why is it so simple for you to assume and blame steroids for this? Its easy to conform, its harder to research for yourself and contradict things. Evidence suggesting no increased aggression on aanbolics far outweighs that saying aggression is increased.

I disagree. Furthermore, it is a simple fact that mood can make aggression more likely. There is no study you can quote to change that irrefutable fact. If you didn't have an agenda here, you would see the obvious link between mood and aggression.

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Or you can lay down and pretend steroids do cause increased aggression.... Im not trying to convince anyone, opinions and emperical feedback are essentially irrelevant in this world. Youll see that oneday.

LOL, you pompous ass. I don't pretend anything. I make my assertions based on fact, logic, and observation; not on what I WANT to be true. Until you learn to do that, you will never be a scientist with any merit.

I have never said that steroids cause uncontrolled bouts of rage. There is considerable evidence however, that hormone levels do affect mood and emotions. Emotions are affected when hormone levels are too low as well as too high. Depression and anger (both well documented) due to fluctuating hormone levels, low hormone levels, or high hormone levels can logically make aggression more likely. This is not "uncontrollable rage". The decision to act on emotions of anger and depression is just that, a decision. If the person has any self control at all, they can (and do) control it and it does not become aggression.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
YJ, you can be a very helpful member and I think its easy to see that you know what your talking about. But your problem is that when your giving your advice, ie in this thread you are comming across as flamming anyone that believes steroids affect mood and agression. In other words, your flaming me because I happen to believe that also. Were in my post did I say anything negative to you? This is a post people can learn alot from but its starting to turn a little heated. Just relax a bit and state the facts that you have without the BS attitude towards anyone that dosent believe the same thing you do.

Not flaming in the least... Im just a bit surprised. I have a lot of respect for yourself and Spidey, so if Im coming off as an ass or as if Im trying to belittle anyone, I apologize, but this isnt the case.

With that said, YJ please explain to me how hormones such as testosterone and estrogen do not effect mood which leads to agression and other behaviors? I think its safe to say that I have done more AAS, HGH, slin etc then you and I can tell you that agression, sadness, depression, and many other things go up and down when on higher doses and lower doses.

I would agree, Im sure you have, but one doesnt have to use large amounts or run many cycles to understand the mechanisms of their actions, not saying you dont, but Ive read extensive research showing levels of testosterone vs. aggression and not one explains any link between the two.

Take for example menopause, I dont know about you bro but I have seen women go threw menopause including my own mother and I can tell you that by the change in her hormonal levels that she acted different then she ever had before. She became much more confrontaional and down right agressive then ever before.

Menopause effects woman individually. My ex-girlfriend for example, could never tell when menoause was occuring, no bloat, little bleeding, little or no cramps, little or no attitude. Its all how you handle it in my opinion. The same things piss me off when Im on cycle as they do when Im off. Like I said, if youre an asshole, youre an asshole, dont blame AAS for causing outburts, fights, etc.

Also, when we talk about fluctuations between estrogen, testosterone, LH, FSH, etc. its almost always a decrease as the subject, rarely do we talk about over baseline, (except on bodybuilding boards). I would agree that going under the standard amount of testosterone effects mood, which is what makes HRT so beneficial. I have yet to find a link between going over the baseline standard and increased aggression, maybe a slight increase in the feeling of well-being. You have a standard baseline level of hormones, when your body falls under this level, it recognizes this and reacts inwhatever way (individual dependant), when your body goes over the standard baseline amount, it also knows, but theres little or no research showing it increases aggression or an "angry" feeling. Its psychological effects may not be accurately evaluated in science, and I could be inaccurate on the matter, but I tend to avoid giving much merit to emperical data, when scientific data contradicts it. Sure some may feel more aggressive, more angry, more violent or what have you while on exogenous testosterone, but I feel this is a suprapsychological feeling, one of placebo.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by sana
mood and agression are not the same thing you are right. this is because mood is a sense within oneself, and agression is an act carried out by oneself.

moods can effect how you react.

I would agree... excellent point. But I think we're all big boys and girls here. I justh ate seeing anabolics as a scapegoat for actions, this is why AAS have a bad name in the media. If you cant control yourself because you think AAS anger you, try creatine, ya know?

btw - are you on cycle? i sense some passive "agressive" attitudes coming off you in this post :)

Just cycle of Satur8 and Nitrous.... but now that I think about it, I did want to punch this guy at work..... damnit, must be the creatine.....

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
[B]Not flaming in the least... Im just a bit surprised. I have a lot of respect for yourself and Spidey, so if Im coming off as an ass or as if Im trying to belittle anyone, I apologize, but this isnt the case.

[b]

I would agree, Im sure you have, but one doesnt have to use large amounts or run many cycles to understand the mechanisms of their actions, not saying you dont, but Ive read extensive research showing levels of testosterone vs. aggression and not one explains any link between the two.



Menopause effects woman individually. My ex-girlfriend for example, could never tell when menoause was occuring, no bloat, little bleeding, little or no cramps, little or no attitude. Its all how you handle it in my opinion. The same things piss me off when Im on cycle as they do when Im off. Like I said, if youre an asshole, youre an asshole, dont blame AAS for causing outburts, fights, etc.

Also, when we talk about fluctuations between estrogen, testosterone, LH, FSH, etc. its almost always a decrease as the subject, rarely do we talk about over baseline, (except on bodybuilding boards). I would agree that going under the standard amount of testosterone effects mood, which is what makes HRT so beneficial. I have yet to find a link between going over the baseline standard and increased aggression, maybe a slight increase in the feeling of well-being. You have a standard baseline level of hormones, when your body falls under this level, it recognizes this and reacts inwhatever way (individual dependant), when your body goes over the standard baseline amount, it also knows, but theres little or no research showing it increases aggression or an "angry" feeling. Its psychological effects may not be accurately evaluated in science, and I could be inaccurate on the matter, but I tend to avoid giving much merit to emperical data, when scientific data contradicts it. Sure some may feel more aggressive, more angry, more violent or what have you while on exogenous testosterone, but I feel this is a suprapsychological feeling, one of placebo.

Good post. I do agree with everything that you have said. My only point is that fluctuating hormone levels can and will change mood, depression, feelings of well being, agression and so on.

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
I I justh ate seeing anabolics as a scapegoat for actions, this is why AAS have a bad name in the media. If you cant control yourself because you think AAS anger you, try creatine, ya know?

I dont think anyone here is saying that though bro. What people are saying is that they "feel" different while on certain hormones. It makes sence because hormonal levels are related to how you feel. If your testosterone is low, you will have no energy, feel weak, etc.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by spidey
Please, don't patronize me. At least until you stuff 8 or 9 years of college and and 15 years of research under your belt.

Give me another year. :)



[b][quote]Of course I know the difference between exogenous and endogenous. My point, which you refuse to see, is that in the end, it doesn't matter where the hormone comes from. Once it is in your system, the body doesn't have any way of telling where it originated from.

My point wasnt to be a smartass, although I can see how it seemed that way, but I was hoping you'd think a little further, damn me for hoping.

The overall levels of hormone in the body is what affects mood.

Cite this please.

That was entirely my point. Aggression isn't a mood. Aggression is an ACT. "Feeling mean" is not aggression. It's just being in a bad MOOD.

Right. A lot of things in this world put people in a bad mood, you've yet to show the link better elevated testosterone levels and aggression, which is what Im after. If Im wrong, Id love to know, and by no means do I think Im 100% correct. Please, if Im wrong, show me the way, being wrong is how you learn.......

I am not making a case for "roid rage". I am simply asserting that hormone levels are linked with mood. There is a veritable mountain of evidence for this association both acedotal and medical. Do a search on "mood and hormone" on PUBMED and tell me how many hits you get.

Im a step ahead, Ive already copy and pasted studies to a folder. :) So let me ask this, if I take anavar and it puts me in a "mean mood" and because of this "mean mood" the guy talking to my girlfriend pisses me off a little more than it normally does, so I fractue is maxillary, would that not be seen as "roid rage"? Where is the cut off line?

I disagree. Furthermore, it is a simple fact that mood can make aggression more likely. There is no study you can quote to change that irrefutable fact. If you didn't have an agenda here, you would see the obvious link between mood and aggression.

No agenda here, but no one has yet to prove their point, so maybe you should have an agenda.

LOL, you pompous ass. I don't pretend anything. I make my assertions based on fact, logic, and observation; not on what I WANT to be true. Until you learn to do that, you will never be a scientist with any merit.

Based on fact? Fact you've yet to show.... is this fact a secret? Wow, youre a walking contradiction my friend. A scientists, yet you put 100% merit in emperical data? Pretty weak.... I thought you were a little better than that.

I have never said that steroids cause uncontrolled bouts of rage. There is considerable evidence however, that hormone levels do affect mood and emotions.

Christ, lets see it! Shove it in my face! I really want to see this data and clear up my misunderstanding, seriously.

Emotions are affected when hormone levels are too low as well as too high. Depression and anger (both well documented) due to fluctuating hormone levels, low hormone levels, or high hormone levels can logically make aggression more likely.

If its well documented, lets see it. Im done with this "debate" until someone can provide sufficient evidence to back up any point made...

This is not "uncontrollable rage". The decision to act on emotions of anger and depression is just that, a decision. If the person has any self control at all, they can (and do) control it and it does not become aggression.

Right, but as soon as one takes action, its going to be the fault of the anavar or whatever.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
I dont think anyone here is saying that though bro. What people are saying is that they "feel" different while on certain hormones. It makes sence because hormonal levels are related to how you feel. If your testosterone is low, you will have no energy, feel weak, etc.

Ok, Ill buy that, your point is consistant to why HRT is a godsend. But one would argue the effects of seratonin and other neurotransmitters are much more relavent to mood or feeling than testosterone. Not saying Id take up this argument, but Im sure someone would/could.

[spidey]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
[B]Give me another year. :)



[b]

Cite this please.


[b]

Right. A lot of things in this world put people in a bad mood, you've yet to show the link better elevated testosterone levels and aggression, which is what Im after. If Im wrong, Id love to know, and by no means do I think Im 100% correct. Please, if Im wrong, show me the way, being wrong is how you learn.......


[b]

Im a step ahead, Ive already copy and pasted studies to a folder. :) So let me ask this, if I take anavar and it puts me in a "mean mood" and because of this "mean mood" the guy talking to my girlfriend pisses me off a little more than it normally does, so I fractue is maxillary, would that not be seen as "roid rage"? Where is the cut off line?




[b]

No agenda here, but no one has yet to prove their point, so maybe you should have an agenda.



[b]

Based on fact? Fact you've yet to show.... is this fact a secret? Wow, youre a walking contradiction my friend. A scientists, yet you put 100% merit in emperical data? Pretty weak.... I thought you were a little better than that.

[b]


Christ, lets see it! Shove it in my face! I really want to see this data and clear up my misunderstanding, seriously.



[b]

If its well documented, lets see it. Im done with this "debate" until someone can provide sufficient evidence to back up any point made...




Right, but as soon as one takes action, its going to be the fault of the anavar or whatever.

I did a PUBMED search on "hormones and Mood" and got 2311 hits. Needless to say, I don't have time to go through them all but here are a few from the first 2 pages:

1: Sports Med. 2004;34(8):513-54. Related Articles, Links


Effects of androgenic-anabolic steroids in athletes.

Hartgens F, Kuipers H.

Department of Surgery, Outpatient Clinic Sports Medicine, University Hospital Maastricht, and Sports Medicine Center Maastricht, Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Androgenic-anabolic steroids (AAS) are synthetic derivatives of the male hormone testosterone. They can exert strong effects on the human body that may be beneficial for athletic performance. A review of the literature revealed that most laboratory studies did not investigate the actual doses of AAS currently abused in the field. Therefore, those studies may not reflect the actual (adverse) effects of steroids. The available scientific literature describes that short-term administration of these drugs by athletes can increase strength and bodyweight. Strength gains of about 5-20% of the initial strength and increments of 2-5 kg bodyweight, that may be attributed to an increase of the lean body mass, have been observed. A reduction of fat mass does not seem to occur. Although AAS administration may affect erythropoiesis and blood haemoglobin concentrations, no effect on endurance performance was observed. Little data about the effects of AAS on metabolic responses during exercise training and recovery are available and, therefore, do not allow firm conclusions. The main untoward effects of short- and long-term AAS abuse that male athletes most often self-report are an increase in sexual drive, the occurrence of acne vulgaris, increased body hair and increment of aggressive behaviour. AAS administration will disturb the regular endogenous production of testosterone and gonadotrophins that may persist for months after drug withdrawal. Cardiovascular risk factors may undergo deleterious alterations, including elevation of blood pressure and depression of serum high-density lipoprotein (HDL)-, HDL2- and HDL3-cholesterol levels. In echocardiographic studies in male athletes, AAS did not seem to affect cardiac structure and function, although in animal studies these drugs have been observed to exert hazardous effects on heart structure and function. In studies of athletes, AAS were not found to damage the liver. Psyche and behaviour seem to be strongly affected by AAS. Generally, AAS seem to induce increments of aggression and hostility. Mood disturbances (e.g. depression, [hypo-]mania, psychotic features) are likely to be dose and drug dependent. AAS dependence or withdrawal effects (such as depression) seem to occur only in a small number of AAS users. Dissatisfaction with the body and low self-esteem may lead to the so-called 'reverse anorexia syndrome' that predisposes to the start of AAS use. Many other adverse effects have been associated with AAS misuse, including disturbance of endocrine and immune function, alterations of sebaceous system and skin, changes of haemostatic system and urogenital tract. One has to keep in mind that the scientific data may underestimate the actual untoward effects because of the relatively low doses administered in those studies, since they do not approximate doses used by illicit steroid users. The mechanism of action of AAS may differ between compounds because of variations in the steroid molecule and affinity to androgen receptors. Several pathways of action have been recognised. The enzyme 5-alpha-reductase seems to play an important role by converting AAS into dihydrotestosterone (androstanolone) that acts in the cell nucleus of target organs, such as male accessory glands, skin and prostate. Other mechanisms comprises mediation by the enzyme aromatase that converts AAS in female sex hormones (estradiol and estrone), antagonistic action to estrogens and a competitive antagonism to the glucocorticoid receptors. Furthermore, AAS stimulate erythropoietin synthesis and red cell production as well as bone formation but counteract bone breakdown. The effects on the cardiovascular system are proposed to be mediated by the occurrence of AAS-induced atherosclerosis (due to unfavourable influence on serum lipids and lipoproteins), thrombosis, vasospasm or direct injury to vessel walls, or may be ascribed to a combination of the different mechanisms. AAS-induced increment of muscle tissue can be attributed to hypertrophy and the formation of new muscle fibres, in which key roles are played by satellite cell number and ultrastructure, androgen receptors and myonuclei. Copyright 2004 Adis Data Information BV


Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 2004 May;92(5):500-5. Related Articles, Links


Assessment of mood states in patients receiving long-term corticosteroid therapy and in controls with patient-rated and clinician-rated scales.

Bolanos SH, Khan DA, Hanczyc M, Bauer MS, Dhanani N, Brown ES.

Department of Psychiatry, The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, Texas 75390-8849, USA.

BACKGROUND: Corticosteroids have been used for many years for inflammatory diseases. Mood changes are common during short-term, high-dose, corticosteroid therapy. Virtually no data are available on the mood effects of long-term corticosteroid therapy. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate mood during corticosteroid therapy using standard clinician-rated and patient-rated measures. METHODS: Outpatients receiving prednisone therapy (7.5 mg/d for 6 months) and similar controls were enrolled. Current mood was evaluated using the Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HRSD), Young Mania Rating Scale (YMRS), Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale (BPRS), Internal State Scale (ISS), and a diagnostic interview. RESULTS: Twenty patients and 14 controls were enrolled in the study. Depressive symptom severity as evaluated by the HRSD and ISS depression and well-being subscales and global psychiatric symptom severity as evaluated by the BPRS and ISS perceived conflict subscale were greater in patients receiving prednisone than controls. Manic symptom severity as evaluated by the ISS activation subscale but not the YMRS was higher in patients receiving prednisone. Twelve (60%) of 20 corticosteroid-treated patients met diagnostic criteria for a lifetime prednisone-induced mood disorder. Activation subscale scores did not correlate with YMRS scores. Other ISS subscales showed expected correlations with clinician-rated assessments. CONCLUSIONS: Mood symptoms and disorders are common in corticosteroid-dependent patients. Unlike short-term prednisone therapy, long-term therapy may be more associated with depressive than manic symptoms based on the clinician-rated assessments. The ISS may be more sensitive to mood symptoms with prednisone than clinician-rated scales.


J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004 Jun;89(6):2837-45. Related Articles, Links


Effects of testosterone on mood, aggression, and sexual behavior in young men: a double-blind, placebo-controlled, cross-over study.

O'Connor DB, Archer J, Wu FC.

Department of Endocrinology, Manchester Royal Infirmary, United Kingdom. d.b.o'[email protected]

The prospects of wider application of testosterone (T) in novel indications such as male contraception have prompted renewed interest in the investigation of nonreproductive actions and safety of androgens. This study investigated potential changes in mood and behavior in response to elevations in circulating T concentrations produced by the new long-acting preparation, T undecanoate (TU). Twenty-eight eugonadal men were randomized into one of two treatment groups: A1) active, receiving 1000 mg TU i.m. followed by A2) washout, followed by A3) placebo, receiving 4 ml castor oil i.m.; B1) placebo, 4 ml castor oil i.m.; B2) washout followed by B3) active, receiving 1000 mg TU i.m.. Mood, self- and partner-reported physical and verbal aggression, anger, hostility, irritability, assertiveness, self-esteem, and sexual function were assessed. A single injection of 1000 mg TU i.m. increased plasma T concentrations from 20.7 +/- 1.5 to 37.5 +/- 2.2 nmol/liter at wk 1 and 31.6 +/- 1.5 nmol/liter at wk 2, and estradiol from 74.0 +/- 4.9 to 120.4 +/- 10.7 pmol/liter at wk 1, and 100.0 +/- 6.3 pmol/liter at wk 2. The T increment was associated with detectable but minor mood changes. Increased circulating T was associated with significant increases in anger-hostility from baseline (mean score = 7.48) to wk 2 (mean score = 10.71) accompanied by an overall reduction in fatigue-inertia (treatment = 6.21 vs. placebo = 7.84).

{notice it says T did not increase aggressive behavior but did increase feelings af anger and hostility}

TU treatment did not increase aggressive behavior or induce any changes in nonaggressive or sexual behavior. Changes in estradiol were not associated with any behavioral alterations. Our results suggest that exogenous TU-induced elevation of circulating T, to the range likely to be used in hormonal male contraception, has limited psychological effects. Future research should investigate the implications of these minor mood changes.
ILAR J. 2004;45(2):189-99. Related Articles, Links


Cognition, mood disorders, and sex hormones.

Shively CA, Bethea CL.

Department of Pathology (Comparative Medicine), Wake Forest University, School of Medicine, Winston-Salem, NC, USA.

Macaques (Macaca spp.) are useful models to evaluate effects of ovarian sex steroids and selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) on mood and cognitive function due to similarities to women in their reproductive and central nervous systems. The results of nonhuman primate studies support the hypothesis that estrogen mediates specific aspects of attention and memory, yet much work is needed to understand which cognitive processes are affected, whether natural versus surgical menopause effects are different, and the interaction of age and ovarian senescence on cognitive function. This knowledge is necessary to determine whether to support the cognitive function of women in the menopausal phase of life and, if so, to determine efficacious therapeutic interventions. Mood disorders are prevalent in women and are associated with reproductive function in women and macaques. Exogenous steroid therapies, including oral contraceptives and postmenopausal hormone replacement therapies, have behavioral effects in women and appear to affect the behavior and underlying neural substrates of monkeys. Additional research is necessary to confirm and extend these observations. Ovarian steroids have multiple effects on serotonin synthesis, reuptake, and degradation, on neural activity that drives serotonin release, and on receptor activation in primates. This system modulates cognitive function and mood and is the target of a broad class of antidepressant therapies. Understanding the effects of ovarian steroids on the neural serotonergic system is necessary to understand depression in women. These studies are best carried out in primate models, which are more similar to humans in neural serotonergic function than other animal models.

Please note, I have not been making a case for steroid induced "roid rage". Only that hormone levels (be they AAS, corticosteroids, or whatever) are well associated with MOOD. You asked for citations; here are a few of THOUSANDS.

[YellowJacket]

First one is good, I like it. Second, corticosteroids are irrelevant to us, so that one proves nothing. The third backs up my argument a little more than it does your's And the 4th was done on monkeys, now Ive seen some hairy guys in the weight room but they arent monkeys, so that one is null. Good job though, Im impressed to a point, keep going.....

[YellowJacket]

Here's a couple I found. Hell, I even have an article by CNN(I think) that dismisses steroid induced aggression... hope I can round it up....

I found a few studies on the topic, that were posted on superior muscle by yellowjacket.




The effects of supraphysiological doses of testosterone on angry behavior in healthy eugonadal men--a clinical research center study.

Tricker R, Casaburi R, Storer TW, Clevenger B, Berman N, Shirazi A, Bhasin S
Division of Endocrinology, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059, USA.

Anecdotal reports of "roid rage" and violent crimes by androgenic steroid users have brought attention to the relationship between anabolic steroid use and angry outbursts. However, testosterone effects on human aggression remain controversial. Previous studies have been criticized because of the low androgen doses, lack of placebo control or blinding, and inclusion of competitive athletes and those with preexisting psychopathology. To overcome these pitfalls, we used a double-blind, placebo-controlled design, excluded competitive athletes and those with psychiatric disorders, and used 600 mg testosterone enanthate (TE)/week. Forty-three eugonadal men, 19-40 yr, were randomized to 1 of 4 groups: Group I, placebo, no exercise; Group II, TE, no exercise; Group III, placebo, exercise; Group IV, TE plus exercise. Exercise consisted of thrice weekly strength training sessions. The Multi-Dimensional Anger Inventory (MAI), which includes 5 different dimensions of anger (inward anger, outward anger, anger arousal, hostile outlook, and anger eliciting situations), and a Mood Inventory (MI), which includes items related to mood and behavior, were administered to subjects before, during, and after the 10 week intervention. The subject's significant other (spouse, live-in partner, or parent) also answered the same questions about the subject's mood and behavior (Observer Mood Inventory, OMI). No differences were observed between exercising and nonexercising and between placebo and TE treated subjects for any of the 5 subdomains of MAI. Overall there were no significant changes in MI or OMI during the treatment period in any group. Conclusion: Supraphysiological doses of testosterone, when administered to normal men in a controlled setting, do not increase angry behavior. These data do not exclude the possibility that still higher doses of multiple steroids might provoke angry behavior in men with preexisting psychopathology.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Baillieres Clin Endocrinol Metab 1998 Oct;12(3):521-34

Potential adverse effects of long-term testosterone therapy.

Rolf C, Nieschlag E.

Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the University, Munster, Germany.

Natural testosterone and its esters, even when applied in supraphysiological doses, rarely produce side-effects. Via a negative feedback mechanism, exogenous testosterone suppresses the production of lutenizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone, and leads to reduced testicular sperm production and, consequently, reduced testicular volume. The main concerns for the potential adverse effects of testosterone treatment are the prostate and the cardiovascular system. Androgens play a permissive role in the development of prostate cancer and benign prostate hyperplasia; however, there are no data to indicate that testosterone administration can lead to the progression of pre-clinical or clinical prostate cancer. Whether the effects of testosterone treatment on lipid metabolism are clinically relevant is as yet undetermined. The effects of testosterone on behaviour, especially on aggression, have not been firmly established. Some androgen effects, such as virilization and coarsening of the voice, considered normal in adult men are inappropriate in women and children.

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Clin Endocrinol Metab 1992 Dec;75(6):1503-7

The effects of exogenous testosterone on sexuality and mood of normal men.

Anderson RA, Bancroft J, Wu FC.

Medical Research Council Reproductive Biology Unit, Centre for Reproductive Biology, Edinburgh, Scotland.

The effects of supraphysiological levels of testosterone, used for male contraception, on sexual behavior and mood were studied in a single-blind, placebo-controlled manner in a group of 31 normal men. After 4 weeks of baseline observations, the men were randomized into two groups: one group received 200 mg testosterone enanthate (TE) weekly by im injection for 8 weeks (Testosterone Only group), the other received placebo injections once weekly for the first 4 weeks followed by TE 200 mg weekly for the following 4 weeks (Placebo/Testosterone group). The testosterone administration increased trough plasma testosterone levels by 80%, compatible with peak testosterone levels 400-500% above baseline. Various aspects of sexuality were assessed using sexuality experience scales (SES) questionnaires at the end of each 4-week period while sexual activity and mood states were recorded by daily dairies and self-rating scales. In both groups there was a significant increase in scores in the Psychosexual Stimulation Scale of the SES (i.e. SES 2) following testosterone administration, but not with placebo. There were no changes in SES 3, which measures aspects of sexual interaction with the partner. In both groups there were no changes in frequency of sexual intercourse, masturbation, or penile erection on waking nor in any of the moods reported. The Placebo/Testosterone group showed an increase in self-reported interest in sex during testosterone treatment but not with placebo. The SES 2 results suggest that sexual awareness and arousability can be increased by supraphysiological levels of testosterone. However, these changes are not reflected in modifications of overt sexual behavior, which in eugonadal men may be more determined by sexual relationship factors. This contrasts with hypogonadal men, in whom testosterone replacement clearly stimulates sexual behavior. There was no evidence to suggest an alteration in any of the mood states studied, in particular those associated with increased aggression. We conclude that supraphysiological levels of testosterone maintained for up to 2 months can promote some aspects of sexual arousability without stimulating sexual activity in eugonadal men within stable heterosexual relationships. Raising testosterone does not increase self-reported ratings of aggressive feelings.


The 1st and 3rd are good, 2nd doesnt tell us much.

[hitmansb]

:rolleyes:


Yeah....well, there are also studies out there that have been skewed to show that AAS do not improve athletic performance. Besides, the posted studies are 'apples to oranges', as they are talking about only test. We started this thread talking about var.

[YellowJacket]

Actually, we're talking about exogenous hormones in general.... where have you been?


Feel free to post the ones on var then.... www.pubmed.com