Proviron. Why is this not talked about more?

[Bouncer]

people don't use it as much because of all the new anti e's around

ya but it does alot more then anti-e's..

[Mr I]

ya but it does alot more then anti-e's..

when you consider the adverse cholesterol effects of anti-e's like a-dex its worth sticking to Pro v and Nolva, and like you say Pro V is supposed to bring out the best of other aas

[The Iron Bull]

I use Masteron, which is the same thing as Proviron but better

[Stonecold54]

I use Masteron, which is the same thing as Proviron but better

ummmm....well....no

[Bouncer]

I use Masteron, which is the same thing as Proviron but better

explain why and how it is better. don't just post opinions as fact please.

[The Iron Bull]

ummmm....yeah.

So you have never heard of Masteron??
Obviously you havent or you wouldnt be asking.....

And it isnt an opinion its a fact.

You know whats funny......
I can make a state but I have to back it up. But when stone does the same thing......nothing??

Anyways........

Masteron chemical structure is 2 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one.

Proviron chemical structure is 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one.

Proviron is the oral form of Masteron, thus Masteron is an injectable.

Thus it is better as we all know......injectables are better then orals.

[ROCKETW19]

sorry stoney and bouncer he is right to a certain extent!

[Stonecold54]

so why is it that proviron acts an an anti-aromotase but masteron can induce prolactin gyno?

[The Iron Bull]

First....where did you get this - "masteron can induce prolactin gyno"

Never heard of it....and IF Masteron could cause it, so wouldnt Proviron.
They are basically the same except one is oral and the other is injectable. That and Masteron is notably stronger in other aspects.

Could Masteron and/or Proviron cause prolactin gyno?

Good question considering both are derivative of DHT.
Just in case you didnt know....that is what cause prolactin gyno, not estrogen per say. But estrogen does play its part.

Since we are on DHT and gyno.....a little advise for people who use DHT derivative steroids. NEVER use Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolva) while you are using.

Tamoxifen Citrate can actually increases expression of progesterone receptor (prolactin gyno).

Now where was I??? Oh, Masteron and/or Proviron causes prolactin gyno.....

They reason this doesnt happen is because of AI quailities of both these steroids. Without any estrogen, DHT cannot increase expression of the progesterone receptor.

The same holds true of any AI.

[Stonecold54]

First....where did you get this - "masteron can induce prolactin gyno"

Never heard of it....and IF Masteron could cause it, so wouldnt Proviron.
They are basically the same except one is oral and the other is injectable. That and Masteron is notably stronger in other aspects.

Could Masteron and/or Proviron cause prolactin gyno?

Good question considering both are derivative of DHT.
Just in case you didnt know....that is what cause prolactin gyno, not estrogen per say. But estrogen does play its part.

Since we are on DHT and gyno.....a little advise for people who use DHT derivative steroids. NEVER use Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolva) while you are using.

Tamoxifen Citrate can actually increases expression of progesterone receptor (prolactin gyno).

Now where was I??? Oh, Masteron and/or Proviron causes prolactin gyno.....

They reason this doesnt happen is because of AI quailities of both these steroids. Without any estrogen, DHT cannot increase expression of the progesterone receptor.

The same holds true of any AI.

good info...

lol...as far as where I got it...does "from steroid board" count"? its like pretty much anything else out there. I call my bad on that :) I may have to look at masteron again...(especially the enanthate)...what type of dosage of the injectable would be equivalent to the oral? I am hoping it would be a lot less, maybe 200mg a week or so?

[ROCKETW19]

good info...

lol...as far as where I got it...does "from steroid board" count"? its like pretty much anything else out there. I call my bad on that :) I may have to look at masteron again...(especially the enanthate)...what type of dosage of the injectable would be equivalent to the oral? I am hoping it would be a lot less, maybe 200mg a week or so?

mormal ranges
masteron 200-400mgs per week
proviron 25-50mgs per day
these are just average doses of coarse you can use less or more. but they are almost the same mg per mg. most use proviron for 2 reasons less injections(thats why i use it over masteron) and easyer to control when your body is clean (testing)
stoney iron bulls last post was right outta a text book very good info!

[Bouncer]

iron bull, good info. tone it down a little bit there my friend. no need for the attitude. you know your shit and that is all that is needed.

i will be the first to admit that i had no idea that the only difference between mesterolone (proviron) and drostanolone (masteron) was the injectable and oral difference. i thought there was a little bit more to it.

to the point you made about DHT derivative steroids and Nolv. It is common to stack proviron with Nolv to prevent all gyno sides. not saying you are wrong just would like to hear more about how nolv can actually induce prolactin gyno. thanks

[ROCKETW19]

. not saying you are wrong just would like to hear more about how nolv can actually induce prolactin gyno. thanks

i dont mean to keep buttin in on this but that was the first thing i was told while takin tren, is dont use nolva if you get gyno sides. i have also read this many times on many different boards. i never took the time to ask why cuzz i never use nolva. except in my PCT

[The Iron Bull]

Sorry Bro... I didnt mean to came of with an attitude..
I apologize.....totally didnt mean it.


As far as Nolva and progesterone gyno.....

There was a study done in...I believe 2005.
Let me see if I can find it for you.....

Ok....here it is.

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2005 May;95(1-5):83-9.

Aromatase inhibitors: cellular and molecular effects.

Miller WR, Anderson TJ, White S, Larionov A, Murray J, Evans D, Krause A, Dixon JM.

Breast Unit, Western General Hospital, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK. [email protected]

Marked cellular and molecular changes may occur in breast cancers following treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer patients with aromatase inhibitors. Neoadjuvant protocols, in which treatment is given with the primary tumour still within the breast, are particularly illuminating. In Edinburgh, we have shown that 3 months treatment with either Anastrozole, exemestane or letrozole produces pathological responses in the majority of estrogen receptor (ER)-rich tumours (39/59) as manifested by reduced cellularity/increased fibrosis. Changes in histological grading may also take place, most notably a reduction in mitotic figures. This probably reflects an influence on proliferation as most tumours (82%) show a marked decrease in the proliferation marker, Ki67. These effects are generally more dramatic than seen with tamoxifen given in the same setting. Differences between aromatase inhibitors and tamoxifen are also apparent in changes in steroid hormone expression. Thus, immuno-staining for progesterone receptor (PgR) is reduced in almost all cases by aromatase inhibitors, becoming undetectable in many. This contrasts with effects of tamoxifen in which the most common change on PgR is to increase expression. Changes in proliferation occur rapidly following the onset of exposure to aromatase inhibitors. Thus, neoadjuvant studies with letrozole in which tumour was sampled before and after 14 days and 3 months treatment show that decreased expression of Ki67 occur at 14 days and, in many cases, the effect is greater at 14 days than 3 months. These early changes precede evidence of clinical response but do not predict for it. However, this study design has allowed RNA analysis of sequential biopsies taken during the neoadjuvant therapy. Based on clustering techniques, it has been possible to subdivide tumours into groups showing distinct patterns of molecular changes. These changes in tumour gene expression may allow definition of tumour cohorts with differing sensitivity to aromatase inhibitors and permit early recognition of response and resistance.

[Bouncer]

I always knew that nolv would not do anything with progesterone gyno but i never knew that it could actually make it worse.

iron bull, on my last test only cycle i ran about 20mg a day of nolv to keep the gyno down. if i dont the nips gets puffy. i am going to be running a simple test/proviron cycle soon. this brings me to my question, if gyno appears on the test/proviron cycle is it more likely to be estrogen induced or progesterone induced via the DHT derived proviron? is this an unlikely scenario?

thanks