Proviron. Why is this not talked about more?

[al the chemist]

beefcake said: If it is the proviron, only thing I can think of is that since your body sees that it already has enough dht, it's not producing more alpha reductase enzymes, so therefore most of your testosterone is going to be wanted to be converted into estrogen rather than dht.

that is what I was getting at bouncer, maybe the compound I mentioned in the above post, 5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol, may be doing something to you, because I have not read anything on that compound except that when dht levels are too high that is the product.

[Bouncer]

beefcake said: If it is the proviron, only thing I can think of is that since your body sees that it already has enough dht, it's not producing more alpha reductase enzymes, so therefore most of your testosterone is going to be wanted to be converted into estrogen rather than dht.

that is what I was getting at bouncer, maybe the compound I mentioned in the above post, 5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol, may be doing something to you, because I have not read anything on that compound except that when dht levels are too high that is the product.

I think you are talking about this right?

"there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected."

sounds to me that the only thing this compound does is convert back to DHT. DHT as we know cannot convert to estrogen or progesterone.

[beefcake]

I think you are talking about this right?

"there is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme when low levels of DHT are detected."

sounds to me that the only thing this compound does is convert back to DHT. DHT as we know cannot convert to estrogen or progesterone.

Sounds more like a suicide inhibitor like formestane or 6-oxo. I doubt that's the cause. This whole situation reminds me of the M1T gyno issues. No one had a definitive reason why it caused it since it didn't convert to estrogen.

[ROCKETW19]

I am going to do a little experiment and drop the proviron for a few weeks. Then I am going to start it back up. If the sensitive nips come back once I start the proviron the only conclusion to draw is that in me at least, proviron may actually contribute in some way to gyno. Should be interesting, I will let you guys know how it goes.
This has turned into a pretty interesting thread and I am the damn guinea pig! lol

this is the best idea. we still wont know why, but at least you will know what! IMO the proviron was not strong enough anti-e for you. then you started nolva at a low dose never giving it time to do its thing. i will bet after the nolva kicks in and you start the proviron back up you will have no problems at all.
dont feel to bad about the gunnie pig thing i have been doin it to myself for years. especialy with progestron sides.

[Bouncer]

this is the best idea. we still wont know why, but at least you will know what! IMO the proviron was not strong enough anti-e for you. then you started nolva at a low dose never giving it time to do its thing. i will bet after the nolva kicks in and you start the proviron back up you will have no problems at all.

you are probably right bro. i started this cycle with out any nolv and the proviron just is not strong enough in terms of keeping gyno away.

[beefcake]

dont feel to bad about the gunnie pig thing i have been doin it to myself for years. especialy with progestron sides.

Hence the avatar. I think when you let gyno get to that point, you've lost the battle.

[Bouncer]

Hence the avatar. I think when you let gyno get to that point, you've lost the battle.

:laughnew: i think a little nolv should fix it. :laughnew:

[Lmg2701]

Looking at all the facts and your past history with AS, I think it is easy to see that the only factor now that wasn't the same in any other cycle is proviron. Hence, the problem. There could be countless reasons and theory after theory about why, but what you should be worried about is fixing the problem now. I think it's a good decision on your part to drop the proviron for some time and see if the gyno subsides.

[Bouncer]

Looking at all the facts and your past history with AS, I think it is easy to see that the only factor now that wasn't the same in any other cycle is proviron. Hence, the problem. There could be countless reasons and theory after theory about why, but what you should be worried about is fixing the problem now. I think it's a good decision on your part to drop the proviron for some time and see if the gyno subsides.

good point. i will know for sure once i add the proviron back in.

[The Iron Bull]

hey bro,
I am really surprised the proviron didnt take care of the estrogen, especially running 50mgs.
How much Test are you taking?

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions in this thread.....
First....DHT does not convert to Progesterone, nor does Test.
In fact, a decline of progesterone increases the conversion rate of testosterone to DHT.

I believe someone mentioned the the DHT could causing it.
The answer is no. There is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will.

When low levels of DHT are detected. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme.

Someone also mentioned that because of the proviron frees up more free Test, which is true but Proviron also has a higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thus preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen.

Deacon is correct about the dosage of Nolva.....80mgs for the first couple of days then 20mgs.
Basically what you are doing is frontloading the nolva because it has a half life of.....off the top of my head, I believe its 7-9 days. Dont quote me.
Anyways its has a half life longer then 5 days ;)


You chould take Letro, is around 95-97% effective at inhibiting aromatase.
Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase. The nice thing about dex is that it increases your Test levels also.

But you shouldnt need to use an AI while running Proviron.
How much Test are you using?

I believe that using Proviron at 50mgs ED for any Test up to 700mg per week should be good, unless you are sensitive to estrogen

Anything above 700mg, you should use at least 100mgs of Proviron. Of course, the more Test the more Proviron one would use.

I tell you though bro...i am really surprised the proviron didnt work AND gyno came on more quicker.

You know what, that could be a clue - "gyno came on more quicker"
Soooo, I'm thinking...... the Proviron is fake? :hmmm:

[Deacon]

hey bro,
I am really surprised the proviron didnt take care of the estrogen, especially running 50mgs.
How much Test are you taking?

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions in this thread.....
First....DHT does not convert to Progesterone, nor does Test.
In fact, a decline of progesterone increases the conversion rate of testosterone to DHT.

I believe someone mentioned the the DHT could causing it.
The answer is no. There is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will.

When low levels of DHT are detected. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme.

Someone also mentioned that because of the proviron frees up more free Test, which is true but Proviron also has a higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thus preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen.

Deacon is correct about the dosage of Nolva.....80mgs for the first couple of days then 20mgs.
Basically what you are doing is frontloading the nolva because it has a half life of.....off the top of my head, I believe its 7-9 days. Dont quote me.
Anyways its has a half life longer then 5 days ;)


You chould take Letro, is around 95-97% effective at inhibiting aromatase.
Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase. The nice thing about dex is that it increases your Test levels also.

But you shouldnt need to use an AI while running Proviron.
How much Test are you using?

I believe that using Proviron at 50mgs ED for any Test up to 700mg per week should be good, unless you are sensitive to estrogen

Anything above 700mg, you should use at least 100mgs of Proviron. Of course, the more Test the more Proviron one would use.

I tell you though bro...i am really surprised the proviron didnt work AND gyno came on more quicker.

You know what, that could be a clue - "gyno came on more quicker"
Soooo, I'm thinking...... the Proviron is fake? :hmmm:

fake proviron!!! good point and that would make at least some sense

the reason I asked about your symptoms Bouncer is that what often happens to me - and appears to be gyno but is not is simply swollen glands under the nipple area - when I ran heavy doses of anadrol this occurred so I went to a doctor - what she found is that I had swollen glands not gyno
the way she explained it is like this - when your hormones change in your body - for example a male going through puberty or a steroid user - when the hormone levels shift as they do with every cycle - your glands become swollen and sore and itchy even feeing erect at times they are so sensitive - however there does not form a hard lump as you have described
When this does happen to me as soon as I go off and do PCT etc it goes away with no lasting permanent issues - I thought maybe this is what you had since it would explain why the provi was not working - swollen glands occur when the hormones shift - such as adding extra test - so it was just an idea

[Bouncer]

hey bro,
I am really surprised the proviron didnt take care of the estrogen, especially running 50mgs.
How much Test are you taking?

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions in this thread.....
First....DHT does not convert to Progesterone, nor does Test.
In fact, a decline of progesterone increases the conversion rate of testosterone to DHT.

I believe someone mentioned the the DHT could causing it.
The answer is no. There is a control mechanism for DHT in the human body. When levels get too high, the 3alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme converts it to a mostly inactive compound known as 3-alpha (5-alpha-androstan-3alpha,17beta-diol), a prohormone if you will.

When low levels of DHT are detected. It can equally convert back to DHT by way of the same enzyme.

Someone also mentioned that because of the proviron frees up more free Test, which is true but Proviron also has a higher affinity for the aromatase enzyme (which converts testosterone to estrogen) than testosterone does. That means in administering it with testosterone or another aromatizable compound, it prevents estrogen build-up because it binds to the aromatase enzyme very strongly, thus preventing these steroids from interacting with it and forming estrogen.

Deacon is correct about the dosage of Nolva.....80mgs for the first couple of days then 20mgs.
Basically what you are doing is frontloading the nolva because it has a half life of.....off the top of my head, I believe its 7-9 days. Dont quote me.
Anyways its has a half life longer then 5 days ;)


You chould take Letro, is around 95-97% effective at inhibiting aromatase.
Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase. The nice thing about dex is that it increases your Test levels also.

But you shouldnt need to use an AI while running Proviron.
How much Test are you using?

I believe that using Proviron at 50mgs ED for any Test up to 700mg per week should be good, unless you are sensitive to estrogen

Anything above 700mg, you should use at least 100mgs of Proviron. Of course, the more Test the more Proviron one would use.

I tell you though bro...i am really surprised the proviron didnt work AND gyno came on more quicker.

You know what, that could be a clue - "gyno came on more quicker"
Soooo, I'm thinking...... the Proviron is fake? :hmmm:

running 750mg of test a week. the proviron is shering brand with the score mark on one side and the little octagon and "ax" on the other. Best proviron there is bro.

also, you said above that test does not convert to progesterone, i have read that it does at a low level.

also, can you explain what you said earlier in this thread. you said, "nolvadex should not be run with DHT based compunds." You said this in page 1, post #24.

[The Iron Bull]

running 750mg of test a week. the proviron is shering brand with the score mark on one side and the little octagon and "ax" on the other. Best proviron there is bro.

also, you said above that test does not convert to progesterone, i have read that it does at a low level.

also, can you explain what you said earlier in this thread. you said, "nolvadex should not be run with DHT based compunds." You said this in page 1, post #24.

#24 - "a little advise for people who use DHT derivative steroids. NEVER use Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolva) while you are using.

Tamoxifen Citrate can actually increases expression of progesterone receptor (prolactin gyno)."

My bad bro, typo in the first sentence. I had DHT on the brain but meant to write progesterone...as you can tell by the second sentence.

As far as Test and progesterone goes....It is my understanding that Progesterone is a precursor hormone. Thus, it is needed to produce other hormones.

Now with the Proviron, you dosage was to low, especially if you are sensitive to estrogen. I would bump it up to 100mg and see how that effects you.

[Bouncer]

My bad bro, typo in the first sentence. I had DHT on the brain but meant to write progesterone...as you can tell by the second sentence.

As far as Test and progesterone goes....It is my understanding that Progesterone is a precursor hormone. Thus, it is needed to produce other hormones.

Now with the Proviron, you dosage was to low, especially if you are sensitive to estrogen. I would bump it up to 100mg and see how that effects you.

ok cool, thanks for explaining.

[Deacon]

My bad bro, typo in the first sentence. I had DHT on the brain but meant to write progesterone...as you can tell by the second sentence.

As far as Test and progesterone goes....It is my understanding that Progesterone is a precursor hormone. Thus, it is needed to produce other hormones.

Now with the Proviron, you dosage was to low, especially if you are sensitive to estrogen. I would bump it up to 100mg and see how that effects you.

it would be more wise to run a stronger AI though