Tren log

[ROCKETW19]

how is that though? when you start a test e cycle you always here it repeated.. "oh well it takes 3 weeks to kick in because of the ester". if it hits you immediately and is at its peak like you say, you would think it could be felt immediately.

the one injection releases most of the test the following day of injection but still takes time to build up.
I have no idea the amount (mgs) it releases but on the graph most releases next day.
remember the E ester also is weight so you are not injecting 250mgs like if it were prop where it is more test to ester ratio also.

I text you picture of graph you can post it

[Bouncer]

I seen a graph yrs ago that showed how the E ester releases

how is that though? when you start a test e cycle you always here it repeated.. "oh well it takes 3 weeks to kick in because of the ester". if it hits you immediately and is at its peak like you say, you would think it could be felt immediately.

[ROCKETW19]

UPDATE

Noticed a bit of nip sensitivity for 3 days following the last injection. No gyno or puffiness just a bit sore. Did not notice any soreness yesterday or so far today though. Weird that it seemed to follow the injection especially because its the E ester version.

Tren doesnt seem to follow the same rules with the E ester that test does.

duh I just re-read your post better and yes that is the way it works. same with test E
you injected and the next 3 days you felt it cuz that is when it is higest.
it spikes to the max with in 1 day after injecting and then slowly lowers on day 2 by day 3-6 its pretty even but declining all the way to day 10 where it jusy falls off.

I seen a graph yrs ago that showed how the E ester releases

[ROCKETW19]

UPDATE

Noticed a bit of nip sensitivity for 3 days following the last injection. No gyno or puffiness just a bit sore. Did not notice any soreness yesterday or so far today though. Weird that it seemed to follow the injection especially because its the E ester version.

Tren doesnt seem to follow the same rules with the E ester that test does.

yes it does the tren is E ester also so the day after you shoot it is the biggest spike. (maybe not day but with in)
so if you inject sunday and nips hurt monday or tuesday thats just cuz it is at its peak and will start to lower durring the week.

when did you shoot and when did you feel it?
its also gonna build up a lil bit higher every week so buy week 3-4 you will know if it is gonna hit you. but if you feel it at week 2 your chances are getting slim that you can take it. still a chance though.

you notice and changes in body or strength?

[Bouncer]

UPDATE

Noticed a bit of nip sensitivity for 3 days following the last injection. No gyno or puffiness just a bit sore. Did not notice any soreness yesterday or so far today though. Weird that it seemed to follow the injection especially because its the E ester version.

Tren doesnt seem to follow the same rules with the E ester that test does.

[ROCKETW19]

Now that I am off of tren, that is something I noticed as well. Took forever to finish. I was going to post and ask if anyone ever noticed postponed ejaculation while on tren. Answers that.

extreaml common

[auri]

Always takes a long time.

[blm]

Now that I am off of tren, that is something I noticed as well. Took forever to finish. I was going to post and ask if anyone ever noticed postponed ejaculation while on tren. Answers that.

[Bouncer]

DAY 7

7 days in and I am already feeling the tren. Not sure how this could be with the E ester but trust me, I can feel it. Sex drive did a sudden jump well above how i feel on just test. I want it all day long and when i do it takes like an hour at minimum to bust one out. :rofl: Shit stay hard as a rock but its like the signal to cum just takes forever. Fun and not so fun at the same time. i remember this happening last time i was on tren.

other then that no sides but again its only 7 days in.

[Bouncer]

cool, will update when i notice any changes.

[StanG]

I dont 100% agree with all of that - but some is accurate , of course thats just my opinion.

stan i believe what you are saying but may i ask where the info comes from? do you have any studies or articles to back this up? not trying to argue, would actually like to read more about it.

Of course Bro. The bold shows the pgr expression pattern change...however the 2 sentences after it are very relevant as well.

Cancer Res. 1981 May;41(5):1984-8.
Effects of tamoxifen on estrogen and progesterone receptors in human breast cancer.
Waseda N, Kato Y, Imura H, Kurata M.
Abstract

Twenty patients with primary breast cancer were treated with tamoxifen (10 mg p.o. twice a day) for 1 to 4 weeks. Before and after the tamoxifen administration, tumor specimens were obtained and assayed for estrogen receptors and progesterone receptors (PGR). Total cytosol estrogen receptor (ERC) and occupied nuclear estrogen receptor (ERN) were measured by hydroxylapatite assay, and unoccupied PGR was measured by the dextran-coated charcoal assay. ERC, ERN, and PGR were detectable in 11, 8, and 6 tumors, respectively, before tamoxifen administration. After tamoxifen treatment, ERC decreased in 10 of 11 ERC-positive tumors. Occupied ERN increased in three of five ERN-positive tumors treated with tamoxifen for a short period (1 to 2 weeks), but they decreased in all of three ERN-positive tumors after longer administration (3 to 4 weeks). PGR increased in three of five ERN-positive tumors after short-term tamoxifen treatment, but they decreased in all of three tumors treated by the drug for a longer period. Increased PGR responses were accompanied by an increase of ERN in two of three ERN-positive tumors. These results suggest that tamoxifen interacts with the estrogen receptor system in human breast cancer tissue and may be estrogenic during short treatment, while longer treatment results in an antiestrogenic response.

PMID:
7214366
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Bouncer]

been searching around and found this.

For some reason over the last year or so, all i have seen on this board (as I don't visit others) is how devastating it is to use Tamoxifen with 19nors. Now, before we get into this, I don't wanna hear a bunch of parroted shit from people who have no experience with it. I have used Tamoxifen personally while using deca and tren and had no issues with the supposed problems that have said to arisen in the past year or so. I have also done loads of reading on it. So lets have a healthy debate shall we? Humdiddly, feel free to use all the big words you like... as long as I understand them. lol

Now, here is what my research tells me. Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist.

In some tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the progesterone receptor would be expected, as the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where i believe there is confusion.

In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist (blocks the ER). The progesterone receptor is synthesized in response to estrogen. So when the ER is blocked (in breast tissue), the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is what happens in cancer patients and we're no different.

Therefore, Tamoxifen will help reduce gyno even when using tren or deca, not make it worse.

Now, Tamoxifen will down regulate the progesterone receptor in breast tissue. Some "guru's" state Tamoxifen will up regulate the progesterone receptor and cause or lead to gyno. By either worsening estrogenic gyno or by itself. They, therefore, assume Tamoxifen CANT be used with deca or tren, but this is false.

Now, some of you may be confused about gyno. Maybe this will help.

You can get gyno (it seems) 3 ways. First off, from estrogen. Second, from progesterone alone, or progesterone making estrogenic gyno worse. And finally, from prolactin.

Tamoxifen can be used to treat gyno from either deca or tren, whether it be from estrogen or progesterone. BUT Tamoxifen CANNOT treat prolactin induced gyno. But can treat estrogenic gyno or progestenic gyno (if that exists).

deca and tren will both elevate PRL (Prolactin) levels (although, again debatable). Therefore, for PRL related sides, such as loss of libido, gyno and lactation (although not only from PRL), Caber, Prami or Dostinex need to be used.

You see, when people use deca and tren, they tend to use Testosterone too. So if they experienced gyno, it may be from estrogen, NOT from deca and tren and again, thus being OK to use Tamoxifen.

Basically, as progesterone is synthesised in response to estrogen, if you control estrogen, you essentially reduce progesterone sides as well.

I hope that clears some confusion because you will NOT find a study stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue anywhere. I have never seen a case of gyno solely caused by PgR. It just seems impossible as the PgR is synthesized by the ER (Estrogen Receptor).

[Bouncer]

stan i believe what you are saying but may i ask where the info comes from? do you have any studies or articles to back this up? not trying to argue, would actually like to read more about it.

[StanG]

if i have been on nolv for awhile i still have to go through the upregulation process once the tren starts?

i guess the good thing about tren E is that it slowly rises opposed to tren ace which just hits you. maybe less chance of problems on tren E in terms of the upregulation process?

No you wont. Many times its wise to start nolva 2 weeks pre cycle if your running it with deca or tren so it isnt a prob. If you have been taking it - you are good to go. I will be following along for sure.

[Bouncer]

correct. Initially it upregulates progesterone recptiors...but after 2 weeks it downregulates them from that point on- a good thing.

if i have been on nolv for awhile i still have to go through the upregulation process once the tren starts?

i guess the good thing about tren E is that it slowly rises opposed to tren ace which just hits you. maybe less chance of problems on tren E in terms of the upregulation process?