New York Times Article

[hootond]

I think that StoneCold has a GREAT idea. We should invite one (or all of you) to present at our next seminar! We are speaking to large groups of high school students all over North Texas.

Typically, the agenda goes something like this:

1st, a world-renown doctor speaks to the students and parents about the physical and psychological dangers of steroid use. He points out that most of the cancers, heart and liver diseases, and other maladies that result from steroid use don't show up for several years after its use.

2nd, a senior athletic official from a major university talks to the athletes about his school's steroid testing program. He explains that his school has a ZERO tolerance policy against steroid use because they believe that using any performance enhancing drugs is CHEATING - - - and at their school, only athletes that can succeed naturally are allowed to participate in competitive sports.

3rd, a 40 year old high school coach from mid-Texas steps to the podium to tell the kids what his use of steroids did to him. He has inoperable cancer and a short life expectancy - he doesn't know whether he will live long enough to see his daughter get married.

4th, I close the meeting with Taylor's story - - a 17 year old student that got mixed up with this junk, went into a depression, and took his own life as a result.

WIth all this in mind - - - would you like to be the opening speaker or the closing speaker? ('Cause we do want to make sure that these KIDS get the WHOLE story!)

[Stonecold54]

either one would be fine. and if you think credentials are impressive then you might want to think twice. I don't have much respect for them unless I meet the person and judge them myself. you can talk all you want about doctors who are world know but it doesn't change the fact that some guys on these boards have been using over 20 years. losing a son is terrible but it doesn't change the fact that only FACTS should be used to dissuade drug use or use. Scare tactics have been used for years and where has that gotten us NOWHERE!!!! You would think people would get the idea. and I would also like to know exactly what diseases I will get and when so I can plan for them. unless you were just going by what the doctors said and didn't research it yourself. in any event I don't think you would allow it in your forum because the arguements against the scare tactics people use are easily refutable if you would open your mind just about 10%more.

[Liftingchic]

wow.....


like i said before i read about you guys talking to kids about it.. i really do think thats a good idea..


but i really think we need to educate the kids TO RESEARCH!!

[Doom]

Originally posted by hootond
I think that StoneCold has a GREAT idea. We should invite one (or all of you) to present at our next seminar! We are speaking to large groups of high school students all over North Texas.

Typically, the agenda goes something like this:

1st, a world-renown doctor speaks to the students and parents about the physical and psychological dangers of steroid use. He points out that most of the cancers, heart and liver diseases, and other maladies that result from steroid use don't show up for several years after its use.

2nd, a senior athletic official from a major university talks to the athletes about his school's steroid testing program. He explains that his school has a ZERO tolerance policy against steroid use because they believe that using any performance enhancing drugs is CHEATING - - - and at their school, only athletes that can succeed naturally are allowed to participate in competitive sports.

3rd, a 40 year old high school coach from mid-Texas steps to the podium to tell the kids what his use of steroids did to him. He has inoperable cancer and a short life expectancy - he doesn't know whether he will live long enough to see his daughter get married.

4th, I close the meeting with Taylor's story - - a 17 year old student that got mixed up with this junk, went into a depression, and took his own life as a result.

WIth all this in mind - - - would you like to be the opening speaker or the closing speaker? ('Cause we do want to make sure that these KIDS get the WHOLE story!)

1st- your world renowned doctor, who might this be?
The educated user speaks openly to his physician about these things, and whether or not the doctor knows the ins and out of use, which most dont, a great majority of us go for, monthly blood panels, too make sure that everything remains on the up and up

2nd- You found "A" coach that truly despise this lifestyle, you should bring in Ronnie Coleman too, ex Texas police officer and Mr Olympia, hes a huge role model in the BB world, everyone respects him, and hes done more steroids than this community combined

3rd- again, you found a small statistic out of the millions of users, that most likely had a genetic predisopstion to cancer, and the introduction of added testoserone, or Growth Hormone excellerated it, sounds just like the HBO film that blew everything out of proportion, because they used a person who had no clue as to what they were doing, he got locker room information

4th- Your son, I have nothing to say to except that Im sorry that he took his life.

Mt Hootond, I know you want to make a difference, and not see this happen to anyone else, but your preaching to the wrong crowd.

This is the educated crowd, the people that took the time to research and understand what they were using, and why they were using it, and the precautions necesassary to ensure no major side effects would occur. We are not the locker room junkies you think we are.

Your hatred towards this lifestyle, and us as a people is warranted, but as Ive said a few posts above, did you ever really figure out why he started in the first place? He was in counseling right? Did the counselor make any progress, did he see any signs of something as tragic as this was coming?

You point the finger at a solid substance if you will, something to base the blame, as if you would with a gun or crack, only problem is that majority of people who begin using have other reasons why, and again if you say he was a happy well balanced kid, then why would he start? You state no other factors of his life other than this.

Im not trying to seem like an insensitive asshole, but Im sick of the stereotypes, labeling and guilt in someway you are trying lay upon us. 95% of the population thinks they know whats right, because a news reporter told them so, or some specialist. sit down with the few hundreds of thousand of peopel, or millions, that have iused for yrs with no troubles, speak to the man the people that need these drugs for HRT, speak to the average guy like myself, that started at 17, because of low self esteem, and here I am 9 yrs later, the prime of my life, fit as a fiddle.

Your showing a one sided debate, out of hatred. You my dear sir are the misinformed, your experts and statistics, are one side of the broad spectrum of things, let the other half present its case, if you dont want to see things like this happen again, because whether you like it or not, steroid use will continue for a long time to come, and by keeping the safety issues inthe dark, well this is why people hurt themselves, we like to blind people with the bad, and it makles it all the more intriguing, and thats when people get hurt, because they simply didnt know...

[Liftingchic]

Originally posted by Doom
1st- your world renowned doctor, who might this be?
The educated user speaks openly to his physician about these things, and whether or not the doctor knows the ins and out of use, which most dont, a great majority of us go for, monthly blood panels, too make sure that everything remains on the up and up

2nd- You found "A" coach that truly despise this lifestyle, you should bring in Ronnie Coleman too, ex Texas police officer and Mr Olympia, hes a huge role model in the BB world, everyone respects him, and hes done more steroids than this community combined

3rd- again, you found a small statistic out of the millions of users, that most likely had a genetic predisopstion to cancer, and the introduction of added testoserone, or Growth Hormone excellerated it, sounds just like the HBO film that blew everything out of proportion, because they used a person who had no clue as to what they were doing, he got locker room information

4th- Your son, I have nothing to say to except that Im sorry that he took his life.

Mt Hootond, I know you want to make a difference, and not see this happen to anyone else, but your preaching to the wrong crowd.

This is the educated crowd, the people that took the time to research and understand what they were using, and why they were using it, and the precautions necesassary to ensure no major side effects would occur. We are not the locker room junkies you think we are.

Your hatred towards this lifestyle, and us as a people is warranted, but as Ive said a few posts above, did you ever really figure out why he started in the first place? He was in counseling right? Did the counselor make any progress, did he see any signs of something as tragic as this was coming?

You point the finger at a solid substance if you will, something to base the blame, as if you would with a gun or crack, only problem is that majority of people who begin using have other reasons why, and again if you say he was a happy well balanced kid, then why would he start? You state no other factors of his life other than this.

Im not trying to seem like an insensitive asshole, but Im sick of the stereotypes, labeling and guilt in someway you are trying lay upon us. 95% of the population thinks they know whats right, because a news reporter told them so, or some specialist. sit down with the few hundreds of thousand of peopel, or millions, that have iused for yrs with no troubles, speak to the man the people that need these drugs for HRT, speak to the average guy like myself, that started at 17, because of low self esteem, and here I am 9 yrs later, the prime of my life, fit as a fiddle.

Your showing a one sided debate, out of hatred. You my dear sir are the misinformed, your experts and statistics, are one side of the broad spectrum of things, let the other half present its case, if you dont want to see things like this happen again, because whether you like it or not, steroid use will continue for a long time to come, and by keeping the safety issues inthe dark, well this is why people hurt themselves, we like to blind people with the bad, and it makles it all the more intriguing, and thats when people get hurt, because they simply didnt know...

WOW.........WOW!! very very well said.. i really like 2 cause that is the truth!!

[hootond]

Doom, I am going to make one final comment, then I am going to leave this board and never return.

All that I did in my last post was to invite you and whoever else that you wanted to speak to our next seminar. You and others feel like both sides aren't being represented, then you should step forward in a PUBLIC forum and present your ideas . . . and defend them. Obviously, you guys are not interested in doing that.

Good luck with your lifestyle and may God and your doctors keep you healthy!

BTW, the coach at the major university doesn't "despise" your lifestyle, he just feels that it is CHEATING to use an illegal substance (in secret) and then step onto the floor and compete against those who choose to stay within the rules. I happen to agree with him on this point!

[spidey]

Originally posted by hootond
Doom, I am going to make one final comment, then I am going to leave this board and never return.

All that I did in my last post was to invite you and whoever else that you wanted to speak to our next seminar. You and others feel like both sides aren't being represented, then you should step forward in a PUBLIC forum and present your ideas . . . and defend them. Obviously, you guys are not interested in doing that.

Good luck with your lifestyle and may God and your doctors keep you healthy!

BTW, the coach at the major university doesn't "despise" your lifestyle, he just feels that it is CHEATING to use an illegal substance (in secret) and then step onto the floor and compete against those who choose to stay within the rules. I happen to agree with him on this point!

One comment:

I don't think anyone here is trying to justify CHEATING as you put it. Steroids have been outlawed in sports for a long time and many of us feel they should remain so. However, the majority of steroid users are non-competing adults who simply want to look and feel better. Why should they be punished along with the dishonest few? They are hurting no one but perhaps theirselves.

Also, not ALL performance enhancing drugs are illegal (not withstanding sports).


Again, my sincere condolences on the death of your son.

[Doom]

No one is backing down, against your debate. At the time, I cant afford to take the time off and fly to Texas, to be a solo act against an already mind set crowd. If you truly want an actual debate, and not a lecture, set up a way for me to communicate through phoneor other means, and I'll be more than happy to speak my mind as I do here

[Turbo3000]

Originally posted by hootond
Doom, I am going to make one final comment, then I am going to leave this board and never return.

All that I did in my last post was to invite you and whoever else that you wanted to speak to our next seminar. You and others feel like both sides aren't being represented, then you should step forward in a PUBLIC forum and present your ideas . . . and defend them. Obviously, you guys are not interested in doing that.

Good luck with your lifestyle and may God and your doctors keep you healthy!

BTW, the coach at the major university doesn't "despise" your lifestyle, he just feels that it is CHEATING to use an illegal substance (in secret) and then step onto the floor and compete against those who choose to stay within the rules. I happen to agree with him on this point!

The fact that you are just gonna leave this board now is immature. I don't think you should just post and dissapear. We are having a very mature discussion here. And if we all lived in Plano then I think most of us would love to come debate in a public forum. It isn't reality for me to jump on a plane to Texas and come defend something that so many people have the wrong impression about.

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by Liftingchic
WOW.........WOW!! very very well said.. i really like 2 cause that is the truth!!

lol.

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by hootond
a 17 year old student that got mixed up with this junk, went into a depression, and took his own life as a result.

With all due respect, your in denial. Its just that simple. You cant honestly in your heart of hearts believe that steroids is what killed your son. I mean there is just no way that your son had any other issues right? No one here is defending steroids as we all know there are health risks. You need to be honest with your self and realize that maybe your son had some other kind of problems.

[New_Mass]

Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
With all due respect, your in denial. Its just that simple. You cant honestly in your heart of hearts believe that steroids is what killed your son. I mean there is just no way that your son had any other issues right? No one here is defending steroids as we all know there are health risks. You need to be honest with your self and realize that maybe your son had some other kind of problems.

Bottom line.

[canadagold]

I feel terrible that your son died. THat is not something that I would wish on anyone:(
I do think that sana and others have brought up some very good arguments though. It is a well "documented" fact that young men of low self esteem turn to steroids to get bigger and boost themselves up mentally.
Regarding the doctors and "experts" telling everyone that steroids are the cause. . .bouncer was correct when he he stated that doctors and other experts have said in the past that steroids do not enhance performance; we all know this is not true...why are they illegal in sports if they do not enhance performance?
I am sure that everyone on the board has seen a few of my posts about my friend that is a Doctor in Canada. He takes a few cycles each year and he is in no way some radical off the rails Doc that goes against the norm. .he has two practices and also runs the emergency ward in a hospital once a month. He is totally into his fitness and is in no way a depressed individual. He is also embarrased of the fact that in his current physicians desk reference there is still the stupid statement that steroids to not enhance performance or muscle size. . .
I think that you need to stop being in denial and start to take a good hard look at your role as the parent in this whole sad affair. My parents knew the day I started steroids because they were always aware of EVERY thing I did and my moods etc. because I had a very close relationship with them. They were strict in every sense of the word as well so please don't think they are some parents that let me do whatever I wanted. I did not drink or do drugs until I moved out on my own with the exception of AAS. . .they talked to me about it and let me make my own decisions; just as any parent should. BUt they would not blame aas if I decided to take my life. I hop that you come to grips with this whole issue and come to terms with your own role in this whole thing as well; Please don't blame things like aas though for something that happens to untold amounts of people each year that don't do any type of drugs.
keep safe
CG

Originally posted by hootond
When all is said and done, I choose to rely on a large (and growing) number of medical professionals who have fully examined Taylor's situation and have concluded that steroids were a PRIMARY contributor to Taylor's state of mind at the time he took his life, rather than listen to the speculation of a number of steroid users who are not familiar with the totality of the circumstances surrounding my son's death.

Further, let me assure you that the NY Times does not post a story like this as the lead article on the front page of their Sports Section without doing their homework. Prior to printing the article, they talked to Taylor's doctors, to the County Medical Examiner, to over a half-dozen world-class experts on steroids from places like Harvard and NYU, and others. The NY Times heard speculation of the type posted on this board and dismissed it!

In closing, you can look forward to seeing Taylor's story in the national TV media in the coming weeks. And, you can be assured that allegations and opinions of the type expressed here will be fully flushed out as part of preparation for the broadcast.

The dangers of steroid use are REAL. Why steroid users like yourselves continue to deny what is written in the medical textbooks and has been proven in multiple medical studies is beyond my ability to comprehend. Unless, you are just trying to convince yourselves that continuing to do steroids is "okay", because you personally haven't witnessed some of these effects with your small group of buds at the gym.

Best of luck to you all, and I can only hope and pray that this "junk" doesn't kill each of you (in one way or another).

[fractious]

The kid should not have been juicing at 17 years old.. the person who sold them to him should be smacked to death.

[Bouncer]

Just to make one thing clear. This post is not hootond VS the board. I agree 100% that steroids can have harmful effects on the body. This is a board to teach people the right way to use anabolics so that it will be much less harmful to the body. We do not promote the use of steroids to anyone. Especially not a 17 year old kid. Whoever sold him steroids should be put in jail for life. Again, this board is for those hell bent on using steroids or who already are on them. We discuss the proper way to use them and how they work so that, that person will be educated on the use instead of just putting something in his body that he knows nothing about.