New York Times Article

[mcbvr6]

Originally posted by Crj900
Steroids can be just as bad as any other drug out there. crack, acid, X, it doesnt matter. His son died because of the steroids, if he didnt take them he would be alive today, any of you who disagree are lying to yourself.

That is pure speculation at best.

If 100 kids commit suicide then their parents must find 100 causes to blame it on. If their kid smoked pot - they blame pot; if their kid listened to Iron Maiden - they blame Iron Maiden; if their kid took steroids - they blame steroids.

The fact is that some people kill themselves and some people don't. To say that steroids made him do it would only be logical if every steroid user killed himself.

All I have read in this thread (other than the replies) is that steroids made him: smash walls, beat people up, steal electroinc equipment, and eventually kill himself. If you really think that all of his problems can be blamed on steroids, then you are simply unwilling to accept responsibility for your own failures and unwilling to recognize his shortcomings.

I'm sorry for the loss, but you are going to have to look a little deeper for the root cause.

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by Crj900
Steroids can be just as bad as any other drug out there. crack, acid, X, it doesnt matter. His son died because of the steroids, if he didnt take them he would be alive today, any of you who disagree are lying to yourself.

lol, you are so uneducated about this subject its really ashame. The kid died because he took his own life. If he happen to have ephedrine in his system would you people say he died because of that? This kid had something very wrong going on in side his head and nobody knows what it was besides him. You can sit back and look for an excuse for why this kid took his own life all you want. The bottom line is, your looking for something to blame and maybe, just maybe you people really dont know what made this kid do this.

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by mcbvr6
That is pure speculation at best.

If 100 kids commit suicide then their parents must find 100 causes to blame it on. If their kid smoked pot - they blame pot; if their kid listened to Iron Maiden - they blame Iron Maiden; if their kid took steroids - they blame steroids.

The fact is that some people kill themselves and some people don't. To say that steroids made him do it would only be logical if every steroid user killed himself.

All I have read in this thread (other than the replies) is that steroids made him: smash walls, beat people up, steal electroinc equipment, and eventually kill himself. If you really think that all of his problems can be blamed on steroids, then you are simply unwilling to accept responsibility for your own failures and unwilling to recognize his shortcomings.

I'm sorry for the loss, but you are going to have to look a little deeper for the root cause.

i agree 100%. These people dont want to listen to that though bro. They want to think that they know it all and have everything figured out. Its really ashame.

[mcbvr6]

Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
i agree 100%. These people dont want to listen to that though bro. They want to think that they know it all and have everything figured out. Its really ashame.

Grief can be an overwhelming emotion. It blocks out reason and logic. People feel guilty and powerless. Blaming something else alleviates the guilt and prosecuting it alleviates the feeling of powerlessness.

[mcbvr6]

Originally posted by Crj900
Yes.

Answer this question... If he wasnt on steroids do you believe he would of killed himself?

We can not know for sure. However, my guess is that he would have tried sooner or later unless he got the help that he needed. Steroids don't make you kill yourself - if they did, everyone on the board would be dead. Steroids may exacerbate a preexisting mental condition, but they don't cause it.

If you look at it logically and honestly you can only come to one conclusion - this was a troubled kid who took his life rather than face his demons. It happens every day. It happens to kids on steroids and it happens to kids who are not on them. It happens to adults and old people as well. Blaming the steroids is simply taking the easy way out.

Let's try an analogy to weight lifting. If I have a terribly bad back. Maybe from a car accident or something. The kind that is prone to give out if twisted wrong. Then I start doing heavy deadlifts and blow it out - do you blame the deadlifts or the fact that my back was weakened and unstable to begin with. It sounds like you would blame the deads; I would blame my back. The back was going to go sooner or later, I just happened to be doing deads when it went out. This kid just happened to be doing steroids when he gave up. It could have been pot, or alcohol, or he could have been dumped by his girlfriend. It was likely going to happen sooner or later.

[spidey]

Originally posted by Crj900
Yes.

Answer this question... If he wasnt on steroids do you believe he would of killed himself?

That's impossible to answer. He might have. I think it is very possible that steroids contributed to his state of mind. Steroids may not have been the only factor though.

Regardless, 16 and 17 yr old kids have no buisness messing around with their already wildly fluctuating hormone levels for a variety of physiological reasons. Kids are at much more risk than are adults for this very reason.

I would love to see steroids regulated like tobacco or alcohol where one had to be 21 to buy them and discussing it with their doctor was not difficult or risky but the reality is that they are illegal for everyone. Ironically, this means it is as easy for a teen to get them as it is an adult. We as responsible mature adult users need to learn to self regulate and keep these things out of the hands of kids or it's going to get harder on us all.

Every case in the media where a kid dies or is seriously harmed and steroids can be blamed (whether accurately or not) will fuel grass-roots efforts and legislation to increase penalties and further restrict our freedoms to do with our own bodies as we wish. I wonder how many otherwise law-abiding people will have their lives and families destroyed for the crime of attempting to look and feel better because of kids who get a hold of these drugs and hurt themselves.

The FIRST question we should be asking someone who posts looking for a cycle is "How old are you?".

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by Crj900
Yes.

Answer this question... If he wasnt on steroids do you believe he would of killed himself?

as the other have said, it may have contributed to his pre existing condition but no, it was not the only reason he is dead. the kid obveously had problems. myself and others on this board are most likely on double or triple the amount off AAS that he was on. im not going to kill myself any time soon and i doubt any of the 4000+ members will either. i wish you would just admit that this kids death was not from steroids alone.

[hitmansb]

Bouncer, we just gotta let this one go....

People are lazy by nature, and don't want to invest the time nor effort to dig to the root of a problem. They just want to take the easiest, most convenient surface explaination and believe in it wholeheartedly...despite evidence to the contrary.

[JUICE]

Originally posted by THE BOUNCER
lol, you are so uneducated about this subject its really ashame. The kid died because he took his own life. If he happen to have ephedrine in his system would you people say he died because of that? This kid had something very wrong going on in side his head and nobody knows what it was besides him. You can sit back and look for an excuse for why this kid took his own life all you want. The bottom line is, your looking for something to blame and maybe, just maybe you people really dont know what made this kid do this.

very true there bouncer and i agree with u.

[JUICE]

Originally posted by Crj900
Yes.

Answer this question... If he wasnt on steroids do you believe he would of killed himself?

just think of this vato, what if the kid has some personal problems,what if he got threaten and was afraid to tell, what if something was eatying him inside that he couldnt tell, there could be alot of reasons man but u never know. Roids arent the ones to blame. Yeah im at times fucked up in the head when i think of the weirdest shit or stuiff like that but never to the point of killing myslef why cause i dont have any problems or things that bother me. Im happy and I plan to take roids in the future as carefull well put cycles. I dnt blame roids for anything, there are other worst stuff out there and tttthere are rec druge and shit like that.

[Doom]

Originally posted by Crj900
Steroids can be just as bad as any other drug out there. crack, acid, X, it doesnt matter. His son died because of the steroids, if he didnt take them he would be alive today, any of you who disagree are lying to yourself.

If this is the case, why did I just look through all post you have made and you are looking for better ways to optimize your cycle?

If you truly feel they are that deadly, then why are using them?

Look I didnt say this in public, but since we are on the end of the stick that will be dipped in shit I will say it now.

Anyone who was involved in that boys life, is a part of his death. Steroids have the bad name, and they needed something to point the finger at, and here we are.

Teens dont use roids for enhancement purposes, its for vanity's sake 99% of the time, and time and time again I will bring this up, and no one will debate these factors:
What were his social factors out side of school?
What were his friends like?
Did he have any type of relationship problems?
He played athletics, what was the coach and teammates like?
His family life?
MOST important, he was in counseling for depression and relating issues, any half assed psychotherapist, or counselor who is a professional in this particluar area should have alerted the parents of these possible dangers, or at least could have seen some signs that his condition was turning for the worst. No one did, and this is the end result.

Gotta put the blame where the blame will stick, most people dont want to believe that they made an error and over looked something, which is sadly the case here.

Do I sound like a broken record, repeating the same thing, yes I do, but, just like you people want answers, I wanna know why such a well rounded kid, with no problems felt he needed such a thing in his life?

[jipped genes]

sir i will not defend my use or non use of steroids.

i am truly sorry for the loss of your child. i pray that you and your loved ones will find closure and be comforted by your faith whatever that may be. peace JG.

[golilla]

Ozzie is not around to blame or some other evil that compelled the kid to take his life. The parents are always blameless of course they are always great loving and nourturing. Even ones that allow their children to use drugs. There is always an external cause for everything no one takes responsibility for their own actions. I knew of more than one bright promising high schooler who committed suicide steroids, rock, rap, video games, or TV programing could not be blamed. How many millions of felons feel that society is to blame for their misguided lives. When will people take responsibility for their actions. The kid commited suicide because he wanted to. Sure giving an unstable 17 year old steroids I am sure did not help (parents knowing about it is as good as injecting it for him) how many 17 year olds have the patience and commitment to research how to use these drugs responsibly. I am tired of listening to all the conjured evils and scapegoats of the world and the excuses for bad behavior. Just shut the fuck up and say yes we fucked up and yes our son was fucked up as well.

[Doom]

Originally posted by golilla
I am tired of listening to all the conjured evils and scapegoats of the world and the excuses for bad behavior. Just shut the fuck up and say yes we fucked up and yes our son was fucked up as well.

exactly my point....
harsh, but reality

[Bouncer]

Originally posted by Doom

What were his social factors out side of school?
What were his friends like?
Did he have any type of relationship problems?
He played athletics, what was the coach and teammates like?
His family life?
MOST important, he was in counseling for depression and relating issues, any half assed psychotherapist, or counselor who is a professional in this particluar area should have alerted the parents of these possible dangers, or at least could have seen some signs that his condition was turning for the worst. No one did, and this is the end result.