seriously considering running some GH for my shoulder

[Bouncer]

it certainly will

Not sure if your agreeing with the first part or disagreeing with the second part. Haha

[jack tors]

Not sure if your agreeing with the first part or disagreeing with the second part. Haha

sorry
i really thought deca was good for rejuvenating weak or damaged tissue. not tot he extent GH would but certain works.

[Bouncer]

sorry
i really thought deca was good for rejuvenating weak or damaged tissue. not tot he extent GH would but certain works.

only while on deca. soon as you go off the pain will come back. unless you got some article or something, id be interested in reading it.

[chuckz28]

Have you done any physical therapy? The kinds of movements from repetative lifts won't do anything to make it better but some legitimate PT should help. I'd go that route before drugs.

[Bouncer]

Have you done any physical therapy? The kinds of movements from repetative lifts won't do anything to make it better but some legitimate PT should help. I'd go that route before drugs.

Most physical therapist are crap. They have you do the same shit they have a 90 year old doing. I think Rado went through the same thing, you go a couple times and realize they don't give a shit. If it's insurance covered physical therapy it's crap. If you can find some sport physical therapist used to working with athletes who will cost thousands than yes I agree your probably right. But the standard turds covered by insurance suck ass because 99% of the time the people they work with are geezers or human manatees who've just had a hip replacement...

[BowHunter]

I did have PT for a month after surgery but it was expensive $90 per session. After I got a list of all the exercises, I decided I could do them just as easily at home. Most were just exercises designed to increase mobility, which was the first thing to fix before strength.

[chuckz28]

I did have PT for a month after surgery but it was expensive $90 per session. After I got a list of all the exercises, I decided I could do them just as easily at home. Most were just exercises designed to increase mobility, which was the first thing to fix before strength.

Did you do them to the point of no pain?

[BowHunter]

It always hurt but over 10 months I did get probably 95% of my range of movement back. That's why I think it's time to work on getting the strength back.

[Androman]

I would go to TB500 route or if you have the funds and want to run GH instead, then that. I wouldn't do Nandrolone since the pain is only alleviated for the time being but once you come off it'll be worse than before.


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[BowHunter]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna run 2 ius GH anf 2 mg e5d tb-500 as long as the tb-500 holds out. I bought 10 mgs so that is 25 days. I will re-evaluate at that point and see how I feel about adding gear.

[Androman]

seriously considering running some GH for my shoulder

I found this regarding AAS and healing, there is no studies to proving this though so you never know. But I will tell you this; I used to have nagging elbow pains and I once ran Boldenone at 1200mg for 8 weeks (until sides kicked in horribly) my elbow pain actually went away and my bones felt a lot better. Til this day they feel good and healthy.

"While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.


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[Bouncer]

I would go to TB500 route or if you have the funds and want to run GH instead, then that. I wouldn't do Nandrolone since the pain is only alleviated for the time being but once you come off it'll be worse than before.


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Why would the pain be worse once you come off the deca? I agree that it's only effective at making the joint feel better while on but I disagree that it makes it worse once you come off it.

Even if your right which I don't think you are. What's the harm in staying on low dose deca (100mgs per week has been proven to help). Compare that to the bathtub loads of ibuprofen and shit people take all their lives. That shit is no more safe than low dose deca for life.

[Androman]

Why would the pain be worse once you come off the deca? I agree that it's only effective at making the joint feel better while on but I disagree that it makes it worse once you come off it.

Even if your right which I don't think you are. What's the harm in staying on low dose deca (100mgs per week has been proven to help). Compare that to the bathtub loads of ibuprofen and shit people take all their lives. That shit is no more safe than low dose deca for life.

I would say worse due to previous experience with the compound and nagging elbow pains, deca is basically masking the pain and you're unknowingly pushing through it not feeling a thing since your joints are well lubricated but the pain is still there and once you come of you'll feel it.

And there is nothing wrong with staying on 100-200mg Deca for joint lubrication purposes, but that's all up to the OP. But if he wants actual HEALING i think he can go on better routes.


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[Bouncer]

I can agree with that. I'd personally go low dose deca to make myself feel better quickly and run GH with it while it's doing it's magic.

[BowHunter]

Thanks Androman; good article. While I am running the GH and tb-500 for this first month, I may restructure that cycle I was planning to include a more tendon centered approach.

The increase in colligen synthesis with deca should be similar to NPP, right? They are both nandrolone. I have never run really long acting esters like deca or equipoise. At my age, I am leery of keeping my hpta shut down for so long. I don't know that is a valid worry though. Do you know if the danger of getting permanently shut down increases with age?

I did run shorter esters of boldenone and nandrolone once. I got probably the best weight and strength gains ever on the nandrolone. I ran the boldenone while cutting a little BF just to prevent muscle loss while doing lots of cardio. The esters were almost the same size as enanthate. I ran 400 mgs ew of boldenone hexanoate for 9 weeks for that cutting cycle and dropped 4% BF.

Are maintenance doses of test enough to avoid deca dick? How about adding a bit of proviron to the mix?

Hell, I should go all out and run them ALL, BWAHAHAHAHAHA. a gram each ew! Maybe I'll turn green and lose the ability to talk in complete sentences.