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Aromatase Inhibitors (Adex, Letro) and Potential Memory Problems

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  • Aromatase Inhibitors (Adex, Letro) and Potential Memory Problems

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    A new study suggests that estrogen is essential to keep neurons communicating and memories being made.

    This shows at estrogen has a clear role in synaptic plasticity, how neurons communicate and in memory. It was known that aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen, was made in the brain’s hippocampus and cerebral cortex in a variety of species that includes humans—and that all species tested have memory deficits when aromatase is blocked.

    Knockout mice can't remember as well as normal mice. And clinical patients who take an aromatase inhibitor for estrogen-dependent breast cancer have reported memory problems.

    The findings implicate neuron-derived estrogen as a novel neuromodulator, a critical messenger that neurons rely upon to communicate with others, which is essential to key functions such as memory and cognition.

    https://www.techexplorist.com/estrog...icating/21149/

  • #2
    I have been saying for so long that I can not remember that AI's should not be used for a variety of reasons.
    First, they are, all, just way too strong. If they were used no weekly or, preferably weekly blood tests are necessary. AI's can, easily, crash your estrogen which causes all types of problems.
    Second, low estrogen Will reduce muscle gains during a cycle
    Third, you do not need an AI to ensure that you do not bloat. Using any drug out there. If your diet is Correct and you eat clean you will not bloat at all or very little. Blaming high estrogen for being a bloated pig is just an easy way to ignore the fact that you are eating like shit. I know this from personal ex. I never go above 8% body fat and usually I'm lower. I have taken Test, Anadrol and Deca together with 10 mgs of noveldex and held 0 water. My body fat was around 6% and I was hard as hell. No bloating anywhere. I'm still shocked, when I read on some of these jokes of boards like Evolutionary.org that you MUST take an AI and high estrogen is the only reason for bloating.
    Then you read something like this

    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk

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    • #3
      Originally posted by pgc640 View Post
      I have been saying for so long that I can not remember that AI's should not be used for a variety of reasons.
      First, they are, all, just way too strong. If they were used no weekly or, preferably weekly blood tests are necessary. AI's can, easily, crash your estrogen which causes all types of problems.
      Second, low estrogen Will reduce muscle gains during a cycle
      Third, you do not need an AI to ensure that you do not bloat. Using any drug out there. If your diet is Correct and you eat clean you will not bloat at all or very little. Blaming high estrogen for being a bloated pig is just an easy way to ignore the fact that you are eating like shit. I know this from personal ex. I never go above 8% body fat and usually I'm lower. I have taken Test, Anadrol and Deca together with 10 mgs of noveldex and held 0 water. My body fat was around 6% and I was hard as hell. No bloating anywhere. I'm still shocked, when I read on some of these jokes of boards like Evolutionary.org that you MUST take an AI and high estrogen is the only reason for bloating.
      Then you read something like this

      Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
      your talking about bloating but what about gyno? i've never had an issues with bloat. i'm naturally lean so my use of an AI is never about bloat or bf%. my use is about gyno. if i don't use a low dose AI (.25mgs Adex E3D) i get a hard lump that starts tiny and grows into a pea size and then bigger. soon as I start an AI the lump reverses course and completely disappears. noldadex does nothing for me, doesn't stop the lump from forming.

      i'm talking low dose cycles as well. even something like 250mgs test cruise cycle per week i will get a slight bit of gyno start to form if i don't add low dose AI.

      thoughts?

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      • #4
        I've been trying to research topics and have experienced the bloat myself. This is the first time I've read of a similar experience.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Bouncer View Post

          your talking about bloating but what about gyno? i've never had an issues with bloat. i'm naturally lean so my use of an AI is never about bloat or bf%. my use is about gyno. if i don't use a low dose AI (.25mgs Adex E3D) i get a hard lump that starts tiny and grows into a pea size and then bigger. soon as I start an AI the lump reverses course and completely disappears. noldadex does nothing for me, doesn't stop the lump from forming.

          i'm talking low dose cycles as well. even something like 250mgs test cruise cycle per week i will get a slight bit of gyno start to form if i don't add low dose AI.

          thoughts?
          I'm surprised you experience gyno on Noveldex. How much Noveldex do you use? I use 10 mg a day and am very gyno prone and it always works. Also did you ever try starting the Noveldex like 4 days before you start your blast. I've just found Noveldex works great if I start it at the same time as the other drugs. I can't wait till I feel symptoms. Then only an ai seems to get rid of that. You could also try adding proviron to the noveldex. But the amount of ai you use is so little.

          Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

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          • #6
            What about the fact that nolvadex has shown to decrease free testosterone levels? Something to consider.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ck302 View Post
              What about the fact that nolvadex has shown to decrease free testosterone levels? Something to consider.
              If your running it with test that's obviously not a problem.

              Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

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              • #8
                Very true. Just pointing out something I was unaware of until further research. It is useful to know if you are trying to get the absolute most in out of your cycle and trying to decide between AI or SERM. Some are more concerned than others about anything that detracts from gains. Maybe nolvadex doesn’t affect it enough to care......I’m not sure. I certainly would give up some minor gains to ensure gyno is under control.

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                • #9
                  I’ll say another thing.... I sure as hell wish I could just run a moderate dose of test and not have to take any of the shit (AI or SERM).
                  Bouncer id like to talk to you about your AI dose for test. What dose of AI at higher doses of test do you go with?

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                  • #10
                    Interesting article. Like bouncer, I too don't run an AI to counteract bloat, but rather to get rid of the ichy nips when on a blast. I do try to not use any AI (I use Adex .25mg every two days when necessary to start) if I can help it but of course sometimes you got to.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bouncer View Post

                      your talking about bloating but what about gyno? i've never had an issues with bloat. i'm naturally lean so my use of an AI is never about bloat or bf%. my use is about gyno. if i don't use a low dose AI (.25mgs Adex E3D) i get a hard lump that starts tiny and grows into a pea size and then bigger. soon as I start an AI the lump reverses course and completely disappears. noldadex does nothing for me, doesn't stop the lump from forming.

                      i'm talking low dose cycles as well. even something like 250mgs test cruise cycle per week i will get a slight bit of gyno start to form if i don't add low dose AI.

                      thoughts?
                      Yes, you are right if you can not control gyno with noveldex and/or proviron you have to use an AI. I would just use the least amount possible.
                      I am very gyno prone, always have been but 10 mgs of noveldex has never not prevented it for me. You must start the noveldex either a week or so before you start the cycle or at the same time. You can not wait until you get gyno because I have never seen noveldex get rid of gyno only prevent it.
                      I know high doses, like 40 mgs of noveldex, are supposed to be able to get rid of it but I dont think that's always true.
                      IMO, and anything I write is simply that, I don't claim to be some all knowing guru. Im just someone who competed a very long time, did very well, has used just about every drug you can think of and has been friends with many top amateurs and pros over the years.

                      If I do develop a gyno problem of any kind I use Letro at a very low dose and it is gone in less than a week. Then I go back to noveldex. Letro comes in a 2.5mg pill or if liquid 1 ml usually equals 2.5 mgs. I have found all I need is one fourth of that dose, or 0.62 mgs of Letro a day to get rid of gyno. Everyone differs so you could need less or more or there is always a chance it simply doesn't work for you. Although, Letro is so damn strong I have to think anyone can find some dose to get rid of gyno.

                      Sent from my SM-A207M using Tapatalk

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ck302 View Post
                        I’ll say another thing.... I sure as hell wish I could just run a moderate dose of test and not have to take any of the shit (AI or SERM).
                        Bouncer id like to talk to you about your AI dose for test. What dose of AI at higher doses of test do you go with?
                        You ever try? I say this because there was a time, before the advent of these message boards and subsequent self proclaimed gurus that guys used large amounts of test with no gyno blocker and never developed any gyno. I trained for two years with someone like that. I remember one year he was taking like 1500 mgs of test a week with no noveldex and it was long before AIs even existed. He never, once, got a hint of gyno.
                        Me, 500 mgs of test and my nipples start to hurt like hell if I dont use noveldex.

                        Everyone is different. If you want try it, the AIs are strong enough now that if you do start to feel any pain in your nips just immediately get on a small dose of Letro and it should be gone in days. Then you'll know that you always need some type of gyno control

                        Sent from my SM-A207M using Tapatalk

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ck302 View Post
                          I’ll say another thing.... I sure as hell wish I could just run a moderate dose of test and not have to take any of the shit (AI or SERM).
                          Bouncer id like to talk to you about your AI dose for test. What dose of AI at higher doses of test do you go with?
                          I really don't run higher does of test bro. If I did, I'd probably just increase my normal dose of ai as minimally as I could.

                          Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pgc640 View Post
                            You ever try? I say this because there was a time, before the advent of these message boards and subsequent self proclaimed gurus that guys used large amounts of test with no gyno blocker and never developed any gyno. I trained for two years with someone like that. I remember one year he was taking like 1500 mgs of test a week with no noveldex and it was long before AIs even existed. He never, once, got a hint of gyno.
                            Me, 500 mgs of test and my nipples start to hurt like hell if I dont use noveldex.

                            Everyone is different. If you want try it, the AIs are strong enough now that if you do start to feel any pain in your nips just immediately get on a small dose of Letro and it should be gone in days. Then you'll know that you always need some type of gyno control

                            Sent from my SM-A207M using Tapatalk
                            I recently tried another cycle after 10 years and had some issues with what i could only assume to be e2. I started a test enanthate only cycle and after pinning only 3 times (150mg twice a week) I started getting itchy/puffy nips and jumped on nolvadex right away. The nolvadex didn't touch it and could have been bunk for all i know (didn't have a great source for ancillaries at that time). I dropped the test right away and after 10 days of nolvadex I ran 10 days of letro. That really didn't do shit either. The letro was pharm grade stuff i know for sure. The soreness/itchiness went away but the pufiness stayed which is really awful. I'd rather have sore nips than puffy ones lol. There does seem to be something palpable under my right nip that was also a bit painful/sore. All of this was extremely disappointing especially to just begin a cycle to have to go through that BS. The whole gyno thing is so damn frustrating when everything else is on point (diet, cardio, sleep, mindset, etc....) I am thinking some day i will just try to get it taken care of surgically.

                            Since then (over 3 months ago) I haven't taken anything and have just let my natural levels of everything settle out so i could get blood work done and see where i'm at. Turns out my natural testosterone levels were low as it is. My e2 was around 24 pg/mI, testosterone 230 ng/dl, and prolactin 10.6 ng/ml. My doc put me on HCG (250 IU 3x per week) to treat the hypogonadism and follow up with bloods in 6 weeks. Even after the HCG injections i am noticing puffiness and slight soreness in the nips again. I don't really know what to do at this point. I'll talk to the doc for sure but very disappointing again. Thinking it may be wise to run bloods now and look at prolactin and estrogen???? Not sure. Definitely will talk to the doc about it.
                            This shit is ridiculous.......

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bouncer View Post
                              I really don't run higher does of test bro. If I did, I'd probably just increase my normal dose of AI as minimally as I could.

                              Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
                              I guess i was just looking for any other particular doses of AI you take with different levels of test. But no worries man it's all good I get what you're saying. Hopefully i'll get something figured out for managing my levels better. Thanks for the response.

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