The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[Control]

Damn I can sense that this thread might help me, but its dern confusing. I have a few questions.

-Is there any way to have set days of the week for each workout? E.g. Monday is always this, Tuesday is always that, and so on. The catch is I would still love to be in the gym 5 days a week. 4 days a week just makes me feel like I'm wasting my life.

-Does deadlift go with legs or pull??? I just bought new straps so I am deadlifting damit!

-And I know you change up lifts a lot, but do you need to do it every week or can you keep the same routine for 3 or 4 weeks at a time???

This really sounds like a great idea to change things up but like others I am confused as balls...

I do rack pulls on back day and romanian deadlifts on leg day. If you were to do regular deads I would do those on back day.

[Bouncer]

What exactly do you mean nothing felt right about it? Did you feel like you didn't get as hard of a workout as you usually do? Was the usual intensity not there?

the workout was as hard and the intensity was there. i am just so used to working muscles in groups that it felt odd to to train different muscle groups together and think of them as push/pull groups instead of arms, back, chest, etc.. hope that makes sense.

[The_Grinder]

well i did this today. i gotta be honest, nothing felt right about it. but maybe thats because its new. i will stick to it and give it a fair try.

What exactly do you mean nothing felt right about it? Did you feel like you didn't get as hard of a workout as you usually do? Was the usual intensity not there?

[Bouncer]

well i did this today. i gotta be honest, nothing felt right about it. but maybe thats because its new. i will stick to it and give it a fair try.

[The_Grinder]

Damn I can sense that this thread might help me, but its dern confusing. I have a few questions.

-Is there any way to have set days of the week for each workout? E.g. Monday is always this, Tuesday is always that, and so on. The catch is I would still love to be in the gym 5 days a week. 4 days a week just makes me feel like I'm wasting my life.

-Does deadlift go with legs or pull??? I just bought new straps so I am deadlifting damit!

-And I know you change up lifts a lot, but do you need to do it every week or can you keep the same routine for 3 or 4 weeks at a time???

This really sounds like a great idea to change things up but like others I am confused as balls...

[Nekrawulf]

I always Feel that legs is too overinclusive. I.e. many people send one day for the entire lower body, core included. I choose to label legs as "hips" as the hips are the primary driving force in all compound leg movements.

The wonderful thing is you can break these mechanic however you want.

say..

push
pull
core
extremeties
hips
work
speed
agility
balance

however you choose. Its really flexible... unlike the typical chest/arms/back/shoulder/legs split

[NewbieChris]

Hips are mostly driving movements with a focus on hip extention.

Core is mostly midline stabilization.

they are not interchangable, 2 very different mechanics, with similar muscle groups.

I got that. My confusion come from how you actually set up this kind of split. They example you gave had too few days for me to understand the set up. Is it that you have 3 days on that have to have push and pull and then either hips or core. Or could it be hips, core, pull, off...push, pull, core...off? In that case, core and hip movements which seem to stem from entire body workout, or legs be too much to put together in the 3 day period?

[Nekrawulf]

How many days a week can you lift and still fully recover? Basically I'd cycle it like this with days off as needed. (I usually lift 2 on 1 off, but you might be able to lift 3 on 1 off. Hell, a pro could do this 6 on 1 off. For new guys I train, hardgainer types, I start them off at 1 on 1 off).

Push: Bench, dumbell military press, cable crossover, skull-crushers
Pull: weighted pull-ups, cable-rows, upright rows, rear delts, preacher curl
Legs: squats, romanian deadlifts, weighted abs

Push: Weighted dips, incline dumbell, pec-deck, lateral raise
Pull: machine pull-downs, chest-supported rows, rack pulls, hammer curls
Legs: Squats, leg curls, weighted abs

You might want to substitute certain exercises, but that's the basic idea.


For compound sets I do one warm-up with really light weight, 2 "in-between" sets which are still wrm-ups but they're gradually heavier, then one set with the heaviest weight I can do for 6-10 reps. The last set is the only one that gets taken to failure. Squats and leg-presses are an exception, I do up to 10 sets of those, usually in the 10-15 rep range but sometimes I'll do a set of 20 or 25 just to torture myself . I still only do one set with my heaviest weight though and that's usually 10 reps.

For the isolation lifts it's just a warm-up set and then one working set with a weight I can do 8-12 times (the work-set to failure). When I say failure I don't mean life-or-death, veins-spurting-blood type failure. The only time I really push it that hard is to get past a weight I've been stuck on or really blast a lagging body part. Then I might do a really intense drop set or rest-pause set, maybe forced negatives if I've got a partner.

Is that all just confusing as shit? It's alot easier to explain in person...

if you do push/pull/legs then I highly reccommend a 2 on 1 off. You have to interchange that rest day to help prevent adaptation.

[Nekrawulf]

I am semi confused. 3 on 1 off, I get, 4 mechanics, I get. However, the way your split is laid out, it seems like Hips and Core are almost interchangeable? In the sense that you are putting Push, Pull, Core or Hips. So every 3 days should have Push, Pull and either Hips or Core?

Hips are mostly driving movements with a focus on hip extention.

Core is mostly midline stabilization.

they are not interchangable, 2 very different mechanics, with similar muscle groups.

[Nekrawulf]

So day 3 you're doing overhead squats and good mornings and calling that "core".

Then you get one rest day and on day 5 you do back squats and call it "hips"? You're still hitting the same muscles twice in 3 days. The way I train is set up specifically to avoid that.

And thats why you platuea, and then cant figure out why your not getting as much out of your training. OH squats and back squats are 2 very mechanically different exercises. So you hit 2 SIMILAR groups in 3 days? It forces your body to adapt.

[Control]

control, if you were to lay out a plan like that for me how would you change it? lay it out like nekra did though, thats about the only way i can understand it. :P

How many days a week can you lift and still fully recover? Basically I'd cycle it like this with days off as needed. (I usually lift 2 on 1 off, but you might be able to lift 3 on 1 off. Hell, a pro could do this 6 on 1 off. For new guys I train, hardgainer types, I start them off at 1 on 1 off).

Push: Bench, dumbell military press, cable crossover, skull-crushers
Pull: weighted pull-ups, cable-rows, upright rows, rear delts, preacher curl
Legs: squats, romanian deadlifts, weighted abs

Push: Weighted dips, incline dumbell, pec-deck, lateral raise
Pull: machine pull-downs, chest-supported rows, rack pulls, hammer curls
Legs: Squats, leg curls, weighted abs

You might want to substitute certain exercises, but that's the basic idea.


For compound sets I do one warm-up with really light weight, 2 "in-between" sets which are still wrm-ups but they're gradually heavier, then one set with the heaviest weight I can do for 6-10 reps. The last set is the only one that gets taken to failure. Squats and leg-presses are an exception, I do up to 10 sets of those, usually in the 10-15 rep range but sometimes I'll do a set of 20 or 25 just to torture myself . I still only do one set with my heaviest weight though and that's usually 10 reps.

For the isolation lifts it's just a warm-up set and then one working set with a weight I can do 8-12 times (the work-set to failure). When I say failure I don't mean life-or-death, veins-spurting-blood type failure. The only time I really push it that hard is to get past a weight I've been stuck on or really blast a lagging body part. Then I might do a really intense drop set or rest-pause set, maybe forced negatives if I've got a partner.

Is that all just confusing as shit? It's alot easier to explain in person...

[Bouncer]

So day 3 you're doing overhead squats and good mornings and calling that "core".

Then you get one rest day and on day 5 you do back squats and call it "hips"? You're still hitting the same muscles twice in 3 days. The way I train is set up specifically to avoid that.

control, if you were to lay out a plan like that for me how would you change it? lay it out like nekra did though, thats about the only way i can understand it. :P

[Control]

Day 1: Pull - Pullups, Preacher Curls, Lateral raises
Day 2 : Push - Dips, SkullCrushers, Incline DB press
Day 3: Core - Overhead Squats, Crunches, Good Mornings
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Hips - Back Squat, Leg extension, Leg Curl, Calf Raises
Day 6: Pull - Hanging Power Clean, Bent DB Rows, Shrugs
Day 7: Push - Military Press, Pec Deck, Close Grip Bench
Day 8: Rest
Day 9: Core - Deadlift, Wood Choppers, Ab machine

Keep changing up the exercises, but always make sure to include 1 major compound lift.

Make sense now?

Remember, if this volume isnt high enough for you... change it up. But remember, it is better to have fewer exercises in 1 workout and more sets, than vice versa.

Say you want to ad cardio, you have several options, you can do it on a certain mechanic, you can do it on your rest days, or you can give it its own mechanic like

"Work"-- and on this day you do your cardio, and other.. less intrusive exercises... like calves or grip work... additional ab work...etc

So day 3 you're doing overhead squats and good mornings and calling that "core".

Then you get one rest day and on day 5 you do back squats and call it "hips"? You're still hitting the same muscles twice in 3 days. The way I train is set up specifically to avoid that.

[NewbieChris]

Day 1: Pull - Pullups, Preacher Curls, Lateral raises
Day 2 : Push - Dips, SkullCrushers, Incline DB press
Day 3: Core - Overhead Squats, Crunches, Good Mornings
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Hips - Back Squat, Leg extension, Leg Curl, Calf Raises
Day 6: Pull - Hanging Power Clean, Bent DB Rows, Shrugs
Day 7: Push - Military Press, Pec Deck, Close Grip Bench
Day 8: Rest
Day 9: Core - Deadlift, Wood Choppers, Ab machine

I am semi confused. 3 on 1 off, I get, 4 mechanics, I get. However, the way your split is laid out, it seems like Hips and Core are almost interchangeable? In the sense that you are putting Push, Pull, Core or Hips. So every 3 days should have Push, Pull and either Hips or Core?

[Nekrawulf]

very cool, i am going to start immediately and update this thread as i go. thanks for the ideas control and nekra. you guys are real assets to the board.

Dont forget, if you need to make adjustments to volume, do it.